Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 238 posts

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#161

Post by saberdancer »

dron01 wrote: post #151

As a viewer I dont really feel (and defiantly do not see) the difference between how physically prepared e-sports or real life drivers are. I see track, cars, racing lines, overtakes. So I really enjoy watching e-racing. Only complain is that e-racing spectating camera work needs improvements. There is huge untapped potential in how e-racing is presented. I hope games will experiment more in this (spectating) directi…

Camera work is a really underappreciated feature. Most sims do not have realistic looking cameras and this makes them look worse on TV. Usually camera is centered on a single car while in real life camera operator usually focuses on a group of cars (for example if there are two cars fighting, he is aiming between the cars, not at one of the cars).

This is a feature I'd love for sims to better develop. It shouldn't be massively difficult to do so hopefully we get it sooner than later.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#162

Post by jedberg »

sk0g wrote: post #123
jedberg wrote: post #80

This reminds me of the time they got bands to play Rock Band with their own songs. They put them on expert mode and some of them failed. The best was when the singer failed despite sounding identical to the track, since he was singing over himself. I wish I could find that video.

Rock Band is really nothing like playing the actual instruments though. Wonder how the guitar and bass players would fare in Rocksmith, however.

No but the funniest part was the lead singer "failing" when singing his own dang song.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#163

Post by huffmsa »

djaychela wrote: post #150

It's definitely not circuit racing, but I had some experience in Rally driving for about 10 years. Did mostly gravel stuff, and did the UK WRC round 4 times in a self built car. Definitely low budget (and low talent!) stuff, but I think I have some experience and know how a car should handle on a loose surface. I've never found a rally driving game that handles like a real car. The physics always seems off - in Dirt…

Before I'd actually done any real driving, I thought Gran Turismo 4 with a Logitech wheel and pedals was the real deal.

Then I started driving and realized it's not quite there. It certainly taught me about proper corner entry, but not the visceral parts of it.

Even good simulators are like those "virtual rollercoasters". Not quite the same.

And like you said, it's very much the "I can't feel it in the seat, I can't feel the vibration difference in the pedals, frame and wheels".

If you're paying attention when driving on snow and ice, you can "feel" when the back of the car is "light" without actually kicking it out. You don't get that in these sims.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#164

Post by huffmsa »

ItsMattyG wrote: post #124
hermitdev wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My car has g-force sensors. I know from experience, it can only handle 1 lateral G before it starts to slide (in a 4-door sedan wrighing around 3500 lbs). Thats with Z-rated tires. What F1 and Indy cars can pull off is absolutely amazing. Most of what they can do is purely because of the aerodynamics and the insane downforce they produce. I remember hearing somewhere that an Indy car produces enough downforce at spee…

Ok so why are there not upside down tracks in formula 1 this just seems like the obvious next step.

Because you'd have to ensure you're going a minimum speed before that section of track.

Means you can't continue I'd you're slowed down for a yellow flag or someone threw you off your line.

The physics works, it just doesn't add to the race other than spectacle.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#165

Post by saberdancer »

thsealienbstrds wrote: post #60
notacoward wrote: post #2

My daughter immediately asked: who's winning? Darn good question, and I didn't find an answer in the article (though admittedly I skimmed a bit).

GT Sport has a DLC-mode where you can do time trials vs. Lewis Hamilton's lap times. On a track where he clocked 1 minute 37 seconds, I was pretty shocked to find that the top 10 GT Sport players _all_ clocked lap times around 2 seconds faster than that.

Whats so shocking about it? Hamilton probably spent an hour or so for each of those laps, maybe less. Top 10 guys spend days or weeks doing it.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#166

Post by mrmonkeyman »

mav3rick wrote: post #145
bikesandcode wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But he went into that 260hp car effectively (physically) untrained. Give him a couple years of actual appropriate physical training and then what kind of car and for how long, is an interesting question. Ultimately, if you've got the brain/reaction times/feel for driving at a high level, what percent of the population has a genetic ability to do the physical parts of it, assuming they are trained? I dunno. The…

This is such a ridiculous discussion, the skills + physical training go hand in hand. You can't tack one on just like that. Many people don't have the drive or fortitude to survive the training let alone the race.

Oh please. The physical component does not require elite genetics, just proper training. Sure, hard work, but nothing out of the ordinary. The reaction time and the general talent for driving however, that's another story.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#167

Post by saberdancer »

notatoad wrote: post #16
notacoward wrote: post #2

My daughter immediately asked: who's winning? Darn good question, and I didn't find an answer in the article (though admittedly I skimmed a bit).

earlier this week, there was an article about F1 drivers playing the codemasters F1 game, and the best pro driver came in 8th and seemed pretty happy to have done that well. the rationale is that driving is not just a challenge of operating the controls, but a physical challenge too. when you take away the physical aspect, the drivers lose not only the advantage of their physical training, but also an important input…

You underestimate the pro drivers. The reason why they came in 8th or so is that they did not train for it. They were competing as rookies in a game that some of the sim races spent hundreds of hours in. They are bound to be much slower that "pro" simracers.

The other sensory inputs are a factor, but most drivers adapt very fast to it. Give them enough seat time and you see them top of the charts, they are not pro real life drivers because they lack reflexes or understanding of racing dynamics.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#168

Post by saberdancer »

deltron3030 wrote: post #143

I'm suprised that they don't explore VR telepresence, where they could drive a real F1 car, or a miniature version while sitting in a simulator. What's hard to simulate in virtual simulators besides gforces are the tyre models, it's basically the main interface between car and environment.

Teams are doing "engine in the loop" simulators where the sim sends throttle information to the the engine and feeds back the information about power response to the sim. I'm sure they could do more but it is expensive and of limited benefit.

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#169

Post by Agentlien »

mywittyname wrote: post #93
nordsieck wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who has raced formula race cars and who has been an enthusiastic participant in racing simulations since way back in the old days of Grand Prix Legends let me assure you - a simulated race car has almost nothing in common with the real experience other than your hands are turning a wheel and your feet push pedals. The sensations in a real race car are simply overwhelming - the noise, g forces, heat, and…

The experience doesn't translate, but the skills certainly do. It's not just those hardcore simulations that translate well. Even standard console games like Forza and GT are good at predicting real world talent. Yeah, the first time these people get behind the wheel of a real race car, they will be sore af and probably puke all over the place. But a workout routine will build physical endurance and most people overc…

This reminds me of the studies done on how experience in video games and virtual training translates to practice in surgery.

The basic finding was that just having played a lot of video games helped immensely because it means practice in careful hand-eye coordination. Also, real surgery is obviously different from virtual surgery, but there is strong skill transfer.[1]

full disclosure: I used to work for Surgical Science, primarily on the development of LapSim, their simulator for laparoscopic surgery.

[1]: https://surgicalscience.com/systems/lapsim/lapsim-validation...

Re: Pro drivers are competing with gamers after F1 and Nascar canceled races

#170

Post by omnibrain »

djaychela wrote: post #150

It's definitely not circuit racing, but I had some experience in Rally driving for about 10 years. Did mostly gravel stuff, and did the UK WRC round 4 times in a self built car. Definitely low budget (and low talent!) stuff, but I think I have some experience and know how a car should handle on a loose surface. I've never found a rally driving game that handles like a real car. The physics always seems off - in Dirt…

Have a look at DRAG https://store.steampowered.com/app/773840/DRAG/ because not having the traditional "centre of the car" physics is there entral proposition. It's developed by someone who frequents our hacker space and his team. I talked with him about his game and his plans, though I did not play it, because I don't care at all for racing games.
Post reply on HN