Live data from Hacker News

Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

bloomberg.com

161–170 of 499 posts

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.06.20020974v... > The median incubation period was 3.0 days (range, 0 to 24.0 days) Edited my post to include that source

Which makes 24 days an extreme outlier

Sure, edited out. Thanks

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#162
post #51

For those saying the Fed is running out of ammunition, study what the Bank of Japan has done. It owns close to 80% of the Japanese ETF market currently, with no end to the expansion of balance sheet in sight. After buying long treasuries, it's not unreasonable to imagine the Fed buying stocks, either individual issues or ETFs. The President would be for it, and it would be hard to drum up any opposition to it in cong…

What would buying stocks do for the economy?

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#163
post #51

For those saying the Fed is running out of ammunition, study what the Bank of Japan has done. It owns close to 80% of the Japanese ETF market currently, with no end to the expansion of balance sheet in sight. After buying long treasuries, it's not unreasonable to imagine the Fed buying stocks, either individual issues or ETFs. The President would be for it, and it would be hard to drum up any opposition to it in cong…

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” ~ Someone, supposedly Thomas Jefferson

Edit: ~ "Thomas Jefferson" changed to "~ Someone, supposedly Thomas Jefferson"

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#164

From what I gather after spending more time than I'm willing to admit listening to every finance talking head out there, the consensus on the street seems to be that this will result in a temporary market recovery followed by the continued deterioration of stock prices given that fiscal or monetary* policy can't really affect the real economy in the near term* i.e. if the supply chain is indeed impacted due to COVID-…

You should edit that 24 days fact, it's simply incorrect and will spread misinformation.

Wouldn't really call it "simply incorrect" given multiple sources pointing to very long incubation periods, but I've edited it out since people are having knee jerk reactions to it

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#166
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes a return to trend, right? If stocks are temporarily depressed you can get them at a discount. If stock prices are permanently lower as a result, though, it's certainly not good for you. And, believe it or not, this is probably the more accepted idea -- that price movements are memoryless, that we shouldn't subscribe to the gamblers fallacy (that down today means up tomorrow), and that being happy for a p…

> If stock prices are permanently lower The only way that can happen is if the economy is permanently less productive. There are things that can make that happen (climate change, for example) but the corona virus is not among them. Fear of the virus is causing vastly more damage than the virus itself. The virus itself is mainly killing old, unproductive people. I don't want to minimize the severity of the problem or…

I mostly agree. Some nits, though:

> permanently less productive

A short-term reduction in profits reduces the discounted sum of future returns. Not as much as if interest rates were lower, though.

Also, the example of the virus could indicate that these infections are on average more common and more severe than we figured, and that could reduce expected long-term growth.

Finally, a "pause" on activity could delay productivity increases. Probably a small effect, but this could represent investment not happening in the short term.

I sent some lumpy buy orders yesterday, but I'm not sure I was right to.

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#167

We are burning all of our fuel to ensure we are running at record levels and when a real problem rears its head, we are going to be dry.

The fallout will either fall on a second term or during someone else's first term. Either way the administration doesn't care.

Exactly this.

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it ironic that the people who say "the government should just spend tons of money because the debt doesn't matter" and don't care about punting the problem to the next generation are the same ones who say how irresponsible the Baby Boomers are for punting the environment problem to the next generation.

And you managed to both completely avoid my point and bring up generational politics.

You don't have a point, you have an opinion. You don't provide any facts or resources that prove the money spent in a fiscal stimulus returns a greater rate than the interest on it. You don't address the fact that the debt has gone up 300% over the last 20 years while the GDP is up only an average of 2.5% a year.

Printing your way out of debt is not a solution, ask Argentina. Eventually your investors will lose faith in the value of the money they're getting back in return and the currency will collapse.

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#169
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fiscal policy can't really affect the real economy Fiscal policy ( e.g. the government buying tanks) absolutely affects the real economy. The central bank doesn't control fiscal policy. It controls monetary policy. Monetary policy also affects the real economy, just indirectly.

Monetary policy is about increasing or decreasing the money supply. The argument is that it cannot have long-term real effects because if it did we would all be incredibly rich, since it costs nothing to increase the money supply by whatever amount. Every underdeveloped nation would simply increase their money supply and poverty would be a thing of the past.

Not having a specific behavior at infinity != doesn't having an effect

Re: Fed cuts half point in emergency move amid spreading virus

#170
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because the toolset is artificially restricted for ideological reasons. Fiscal responses (having the government spend actual money, either on things like infrastructure it by just handing it out to the population, which will then largely spend that money as they see fit) rather than monetary policy responses (reduce rates and hope that people will borrow more) are known to work well in most cases. The Corona vir…

> inflation has arguably been far too low for far too long anyway... Do you not need a roof over your head, health insurance, a car, college education, etc? Inflation has been rampant, it's just not apparent in manufactured goods because the actual cost of production dropped rapidly with offshoring and technological progress. Without significant inflation, we would have seen a steady march down of consumer prices, as…

Yes the not-so-hidden inflation has been rampant, but universal health care, basic income, and direct infrastructure investment would help, not hurt those.

Let's go over Housing, healthcare, and education in turn:

- Housing, overpriced because the jobs are concentrated, stupid zoning, etc. We deserve dense cities but UBI means no job, no stave, which in the short term takes away the demand to move. Let's not rest on that and continue to stupid-suburb, but do take some refuge in that short term benefit of decreasing the necessity of people moving.

- Education, overpriced because of a shortage of work and a credentialist rat race. I'm all for people being educated---say a liberal arts that includes engineering not because it pays well but because one has to understand the machines that surround us to understand the modern human and social condition. But it's stupid to expect people to stuggle to acquire credentials that won't get them hired and won't actually help with the stupid jobs that get if they are hired.

UBI helps eliminate unproductive by removing the desperation that forces people to take them. The decreased demand for employment hopefully will end the credentialism rat race, lowering the cost of education. And the decreased drudgery of the education that remains should make the education better, and push employers to shoulder more of the remaining cost.

- Healthcare. Unlike the others this probably is less overvalued; avoiding being sick or getting well when sick is incredibly valuable to the individual, and thus I view the price gouging as inevitable. I don't think there is a market based solution to this one, but that's OK. Just do the universal thing and remove this from the market, and now its not subject to inflation in the same way. [The power of the state commands the supply to exist.]

Post reply on HN