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The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

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Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#161

Post by chrischen »

andreilys wrote: post #38
nimbius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in a lot of cases the low-cost competitors are not only lower cost but have more features and/or better performance. They side-step a lot of the planned obsolescence and intentional feature scarcity US companies have become so dependent on to avoid meaningful R&D. Its hard not to see a lot of them as sort of a Robin Hood. On topic though, Most of the pot-banging from Washington is at the behest of AT&T and other US c…

” They side-step a lot of the planned obsolescence and intentional feature scarcity US companies have become so dependent on to avoid meaningful R&D. ” They also “side-step” the capital and years of research required to come up with the products. Why invest in R&D when you can invest in corporate espionage for a fraction of the cost?

That's a separate issue. If Huawei violated some IP patents then why aren't they suing for that? Any meaningful R&D developments would be patented and would be publicly available and described anyways.

And if your product is so weakly innovative that a picture of the circuity or some power point slides basically give away significant trade secrets, then your product probably sucks.

These charges sound like they're for non-innovation based trade secrets, whatever those may be.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#162

Post by sand_castles »

otterley wrote: post #119
Dahoon wrote: post #112

So Huawei is coping US companies and still creating better equipment than those it copy from? Ask anyone (well maybe anyone outside the US) in the tele industry and they'll tell you that Huawei is cheaper, better and also faster to fix a problem in both software and hardware. At least I have never heard anyone state otherwise outside of anon people on a forum. So, ask a real person and see.

The argument goes that Huawei would not be able to "create better equipment" had they been unable to wrongfully copy others' work in the first place. If the allegations are true, Huawei enjoys a position that resulted from unlawful and immoral behavior, and their ill-gotten gains should be confiscated from them. Who knows what would have happened had Huawei done all their own R&D in the first place. Maybe they'd be i…

relax bro,

we all stand in other's shoulders.

also, you in what army ? are you going to invade Asia ?

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#163

Post by hxyhsjsxycy »

nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

How silly of them to fail to account for the Chinese being a bunch of thieves.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#164

Post by gruez »

JPKab wrote: post #105
tpudlik wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this as a win-win, too, but in a different way. Early on, the US companies cut their costs: good for them, and likely their customers. In the long term, China developed the expertise needed to contribute to the development of advanced technologies: good for them, and for humanity's aggregate progress. There's a lot of acrimony over how to divide the surplus, but this shouldn't overshadow the technological and e…

I love the fact that the PEOPLE of China have been able to benefit economically from this. However, less than 9% of China's population are members of the CCP. The other 91% of China's people are locked out of any form of government representation. This is a recipe for tyranny, and the elites of the CCP have oppressed the good citizens of China by developing tech for suppression of speech, identification and targeting…

>However, less than 9% of China's population are members of the CCP. The other 91% of China's people are locked out of any form of government representation.

I wonder how this form of representation is distributed. In a democracy, theoretically everyone is represented equally. In the CCP, how much say do the lowest members have? Are they yes men all the way up?

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#165

Post by hatenberg »

gruez wrote: post #164
JPKab wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the fact that the PEOPLE of China have been able to benefit economically from this. However, less than 9% of China's population are members of the CCP. The other 91% of China's people are locked out of any form of government representation. This is a recipe for tyranny, and the elites of the CCP have oppressed the good citizens of China by developing tech for suppression of speech, identification and targeting…

>However, less than 9% of China's population are members of the CCP. The other 91% of China's people are locked out of any form of government representation. I wonder how this form of representation is distributed. In a democracy, theoretically everyone is represented equally. In the CCP, how much say do the lowest members have? Are they yes men all the way up?

Less than 1% of Americans elected Moscow Mitch. Now they are locked out ....

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#166

Post by heartbeats »

nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

That might be the case for the companies, but what about the rest of us?

There's two ways this can end:

1. China becomes the global #1, we all get social credit scores, etc

2. Something is done to stop the ascendancy of China

Our losses far exceed the companies' short-term gains.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#167

Post by heartbeats »

cmroanirgo wrote: post #125
nostromo wrote: post #18

> The DoJ alleges that Huawei and a number of its affiliates used confidential agreements with American companies over the past two decades to access the trade secrets of those companies, only to then misappropriate that intellectual property and use it to fund Huawei’s business. These American companies thought they could build their products for a fraction of the price in China and increase margins. They didn't sto…

Exactly. All's fair in love and war... Provided you play by our rules, is what the companies are espousing. Going out to plunder foreign countries for cheap labour and materials and then complaining when they begin to 'return the favour' so to speak, is just being woefully ignorant.

This disregards the fact that countries' leaders have obligations only to their own citizenry and thus not to foreign countries. China is justified in their actions from their perspective, but not ours. We should never have allowed their ascendancy.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#168

Post by chaos_a »

Dahoon wrote: post #112

So Huawei is coping US companies and still creating better equipment than those it copy from? Ask anyone (well maybe anyone outside the US) in the tele industry and they'll tell you that Huawei is cheaper, better and also faster to fix a problem in both software and hardware. At least I have never heard anyone state otherwise outside of anon people on a forum. So, ask a real person and see.

The problem with that is if Huawei succeeds with stolen technology, which at this point is known true, then who exactly will create new hardware and software? Since these companies aren't earning anything from stolen tech. Huawei will actually have to do something themselves and wind up charging the same amount as everyone else.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#169

Post by blackrock »

vertig0h wrote: post #93
blackrock wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tiring trope. It’s like how the music industry kept saying that people would no longer sing and make songs, because piracy would prevent them from doing so. As if there was no money to be made, and money was the only point of singing. As if piracy ever stopped people from singing for the past 10,000 years. Well, artists do make money from songs, by having concerts. They are selling the service and the exper…

This is a shortsighted view. Evidence from many other industries with weak property rights contradicts your point. Nigeria's film industry is unable to allocate significant resources to film production in large part because Nigeria's government is incapable of enforcing copyright on behalf of the filmmakers. Stealing IP does have an impact on capital allocation.

I’m sorry, what?

Nigeria has a film industry? I can’t even locate that country on the map.

Edit: I don’t think this is a good example. Nigeria has other problems and priorities to tackle first.

Re: The U.S. is charging Huawei with racketeering

#170

Post by onetimemanytime »

skissane wrote: post #135
JPKab wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the fact that the PEOPLE of China have been able to benefit economically from this. However, less than 9% of China's population are members of the CCP. The other 91% of China's people are locked out of any form of government representation. This is a recipe for tyranny, and the elites of the CCP have oppressed the good citizens of China by developing tech for suppression of speech, identification and targeting…

> However, less than 9% of China's population are members of the CCP. The other 91% of China's people are locked out of any form of government representation. I wonder, of the 91% who aren’t party members, what percentage are non-members because they don’t want to join the party, versus what percentage wouldn’t be allowed to join even if they wanted to?

>>I wonder, of the 91% who aren’t party members, what percentage are non-members because they don’t want to join the party, versus what percentage wouldn’t be allowed to join even if they wanted to?

In another country, there's was no "I don’t want to join the party" when invited, just relatives with bad reputations as far as the party was concerned so no invitation. In that case, even if you were applied, you'd be refused. Think for a second, you not wanting to join the party? Granted, China in 2020 is different from Eastern Europe in the 1960-1980's but the idea is probably the same.

However, probably 95% join to enjoy the perks.

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