ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD • Hacker News Board

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#161

Post by robocat » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

ajford wrote: post #127

Aperocky wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree mostly on the hardware complaints ( I have the same and I use a mechanic keyboard and standalone trackpad), but not sure about atrocious user experience of the OS. One of the biggest plus of mac is that it's terminal is posix.

In my opinion, that's the only positive to using OSX. Wish they didn't use an old as hell version of Bash. For my Linux work, I code to Bash 4, and I've been bit a few times when my scripts won't run on my laptop due that. The need for 3rd party software (spectacles) to allow me to use hot-keys to shift windows around (native feature in Windows, Linux, and iirc even the windows manager in Sun V when I used it for a s…

I wondered why Apple use an old bash version, Google said: "The reason that Apple includes such an old version of Bash in its operating system has to do with licensing. Since version 4.0 (successor of 3.2), Bash uses the GNU General Public License v3 (GPLv3), which Apple does not (want to) support."

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#162

Post by emaste » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #150

emaste wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a Lenovo X1 Carbon 7th gen for FreeBSD development; there are many options besides ancient hardware. Buying a non-name $200 laptop isn't likely to result in a good experience, but if you're willing to do a little research there are many good options.

Any hardware not work on that one, that you know of?

The mic doesn't work yet, actually an array of MEMS mics and needs firmware for an onboard DSP. The trackpad driver isn't yet in the tree and needs to be built separately. Overall it provides a decent experience for someone with a bit of skill.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#163

Post by lsiebert » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:06 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #156

Koshkin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux it is, then.

Linux desktop is great in 2020, especially if you buy the right hardware with solid support, the experience is totally smooth and super-high performance with stuff like ArchLinux. Boots up immediatley, no annoying MacOS updates or having to install XCode while having multiple versions of core unix packages, because it pre-installs a bunch of out-of-date ones you replace immediately with brew. This causes problems, es…

So I used to be a Linux mint/ubuntu/fedora user (I distro hopped a bit), but I really like how homebrew on macs is per user account rather than system wide, and I can just delete the folder to reset it for the most part (minus running programs, some GUI casks, and shortcuts). AFAIK, apt-get and most if not all linux package managers only work system wide, and I can't install something just for a specific user. Maybe arch is different? Homebrew definitely has issues though, agreed.

Incidentally I ran all of those distros on a T430... which still works fine when I boot it up. Thinkpads are great linux machines, and just great easily repairable machines in general.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#164

Post by Aengeuad » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #97

loeg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They almost certainly mean 802.11g or n, not the archaic a. FreeBSD has generally good 802.11n support. It lacks 802.11ac. Yes, if you absolutely need 802.11ac wifi in particular, FreeBSD isn't a great choice. But many modern 802.11n NICs (and 802.11ac NICs, in 802.11n mode) "just work" out of the box, including the 'iwm' devices mentioned in the article, on more recent versions of FreeBSD. FreeBSD 12.0 dates to 2018…

> It lacks 802.11ac. Why in the world would it lack support for one of the most ubiquitous, not to mention fastest, wireless standards? I mean, it’s been out since 2013.

Speaking from memory as it's a little difficult to search for but there's no fully FOSS ac driver available for Linux which might be why the BSDs have none, Linux has open source ac drivers of course but they still require proprietary firmware blobs and the performance is terrible compared to the proprietary drivers (think 350Mb/s with OpenWrt compared to 800Mb/s on stock router firmware). Atheros released fully open blob free 802.11n drivers in 2008 with their ath9k driver, although no other manufacturer followed suit. I've heard that there may be licencing or patent restrictions preventing blob free ac drivers from being released but again it's a little difficult to try and verify this.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#165

Post by whatsmyusername » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:27 AM UTC

I mean, I'm going to ask the question.

Why?

If it's for funsies okay but pushing to use something wildly boutique is a major red flag for me at work. I have one guy who works for me who runs linux on the desktop and he's pretty much always having a problem of some sort. I put up with it because he's staff level, but it doesn't impress.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#166

Post by adtac » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

nextos wrote: post #129

adtac wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a T495s with the 400-nit low power display and it is by far the best screen I've ever seen on a laptop. I have no idea what you're talking about; of course, if you go with the 1366x768 screen that Lenovo seems to continue to offer inexplicably, you're shafted, but the 1920x1080 400-nit screen is incredible. It's matte, thin, extremely low power (powertop tells me it's under 1W right now at 30% brightness, which…

Is it a silent machine?

It is. I never hear the fan running. But annoyingly, they've put the fan vent on the right side of the machine, so every now and then I can feel the hot air from the vent when my mouse is close to it, but I never hear it. Even in the quietest environments.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#167

Post by post_break » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:29 AM UTC

funklute wrote: post #100

post_break wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy matte screen protectors. I put one on my macbook and it was night and day.

Do you think it was as good as a factory-produced matte screen? While I was aware you can do this, I'm a little hesitant to do something which is an absolute minimum for usability, in case I'm not happy with the outcome. It feels a bit like having to install a keyboard on the laptop myself, because the laptop didn't come with one...

I honestly couldn't tell the difference. You lose some output and viewing angle, but you did so on the matte screen as well. I had it on for like 6 years and my wife still has hers on from 2011.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#168

Post by vinceguidry » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:30 AM UTC

bjornjajajaja wrote: post #117

loeg wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Time, resources, interest; lack of open datasheets and corporate sponsorship from the hardware vendors making the parts. These things don't just happen magically; people make them happen. Linux finally has enough market power that vendors willingly write drivers for it, but I remember a very similar situation with Linux in the 2000s when Microsoft was the only player around with that kind of market clout.

Also, who really NEEDS 802.11 ac?? If you’re that picky wtf not plug into Ethernet??

It's not just about speed. I bought a Purism Librem 13 that only came with an n wifi chip. After no end of problems connecting to wifi networks I swapped the chip for an ac. The n would just fail to connect to many networks I needed it to connect to. With an ac I now have no wifi problems.

You don't think you need ac until you try to get by without.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#169

Post by vinceguidry » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #158

School-Cotton wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the person you responded to was claiming or implying that FreeBSD's wifi support is incomplete on purpose. Rather giving a reason for why resources have not (yet?) been expended in that area. I have FreeBSD running on my home desktop workstation and everything is working fine, but I wouldn't try to install it on my laptop. Laptop hardware is just too variable and non-standard. Touchscreens, esoteric Wi-…

That's a very charitable read of GP's remarks. Kudos for the generosity, but I didn't get the same impression from the statements and the context. The phrases GP is repeating aren't novel; they're repeated time and time again in any messageboard discussion that ever touches on a missing feature in FreeBSD. You could say FreeBSD is missing SATA support (just for example; it isn't really) and someone would chime in wit…

Please try to be charitable online and consider not engaging if you can't bring yourself to. Nobody can give 100% of the context needed to satisfy everyone that might be reading it. We all seem to want everybody to read our own contributions charitably but don't want to give others the same benefit. Makes interaction not fun.

Re: ThinkPad T480 is my new main laptop which runs FreeBSD

#170

Post by ianai » Sat, Feb 08, 2020, 2:40 AM UTC

loeg wrote: post #140

travbrack wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because running freebsd on a laptop is an edge case. Most people run it on servers. It’s not trying to be everything to everyone like Linux is.

FreeBSD dev here — I don't like this line of argument. It is always used to rationalize any defect in FreeBSD. Sometimes we just have defects! That's just the truth of things; we don't need to pretend we're defective on purpose . Many developers run FreeBSD on their daily driver laptops or workstations because it is (perhaps tautologically) one of the best platforms to develop FreeBSD on. Our wifi support isn't 100%…

How difficult would it be to flesh out this rough spot? For others, it seems like a FreeBSD dev might not at all be able to get ac support for hardware with the drivers as locked down as they are. But if I knew the problem was tractable I might try my hand at it someday. Could be a good resume driven project.