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1000 True Fans? Try 100

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Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#161

Post by yters »

gowld wrote: post #150
yters wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the passion project can make an impact within the monopoly? E.g. use indie game dev knowledge to improve costumer engagement with the product?

Is that a good thing? "Engagement" is usually toxic Skinner boxing.

Most things can be used for good or ill. A well defined and engaging UI can certainly be a good thing, if designed appropriately. Most business software is a boring slog to use. Why not design it so the user feels uplifted during the workday? Work could potentially benefit the person as well as the company bottom line, and become a virtuous whole.

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#162

Post by justaguyhere »

fouc wrote: post #55
giantrobot wrote: post #48

Who in the hell is going to pay another individual $1000 a year to make content? That's more than a year's subscriptions to Disney+, Amazon Prime, and Netflix! One of the root ideas in the True Fans essay was a fan would be willing to spend a day's wage for a year's worth of content from a creator. A large portion of the population at large can pay a day's wage for say 52 hours (a creator spitting out and hour of con…

But you know, $1000 a year is only $84/mo, which is less than $4 per day. It's the price of a fancy starbucks coffee probably.

So this is the problem with "starbucks coffee daily" argument - you are assuming people spend money logically/rationally, most people don't. That is why folks don't have any problem dropping $4 every single day at Starbucks (their coffee isn't even that good), but they won't spend $5 per month for something as important as email and depend on free email like GMail.

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#163

Post by michaelt »

Proziam wrote: post #158
aj-4 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Ninja is a particularly good example because (1) he is operating at a scale where the normal rules don't apply (2) his rise was equally fast and volatile (3) twitch requires a constant presence more than other content platforms. Furthermore I read your take, and maybe I'm wrong, as a 1k "fans" and not 1k "true fans" The "true fans" model is a subset within the larger audience demographic -- they don't c…

Ninja is the most visible example, but the same pattern holds true at virtually any audience size (within the range of what is typically monetizable). This pattern is actually more extreme on platforms like Patreon because the audience is expecting something for their money. They are closer to a customer than a typical viewer. The distinction between a 'true' fan and just a 'fan' is a vague one. If a creator has a to…

Right, but while ninja might have lost $140,000 by going two days without streaming, almost none of the youtube channels I support on patreon are producing a video daily. Much easier to take two days off if you're only producing one or two videos a week!

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#164

Post by Proziam »

michaelt wrote: post #163
Proziam wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ninja is the most visible example, but the same pattern holds true at virtually any audience size (within the range of what is typically monetizable). This pattern is actually more extreme on platforms like Patreon because the audience is expecting something for their money. They are closer to a customer than a typical viewer. The distinction between a 'true' fan and just a 'fan' is a vague one. If a creator has a to…

Right, but while ninja might have lost $140,000 by going two days without streaming, almost none of the youtube channels I support on patreon are producing a video daily. Much easier to take two days off if you're only producing one or two videos a week!

On that front, I totally agree. Some platforms are far easier to manage an acceptable work-life balance than others. Unfortunately, a month off due to illness would still result in a massive loss of income which could take a long time to rebuild. The financial situations many creators put themselves in scare me, to be honest.

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#165

Post by ishjoh »

sacado2 wrote: post #125
toxik wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting point with the pyramid, a podcaster (Sam Harris) recently turned his free podcast into a "freemium" model where you get half of each episode for free. I imagine this is going to completely kill his following, as it did for me. Freemium is actually being charitable, it's more like shareware.

It's going to kill his following among people who want to follow him for free, but by definition they don't bring him any money. If you have enough paying users, meaning your business gained momentum, you don't really care about free users anymore.

Sam also does a number of live appearances, and I suspect that a number of free listeners would buy tickets once in a while to see him. It would be interesting to know if this move would decrease the popularity of live appearances as well.

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#166

Post by dang »

nottorp wrote: post #82
dang wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. " " Don't be snarky. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Well it is a good critical comment but the HN readers are part of the same bubble and don't realize it :)

That use of "bubble" is a pejorative, so the comment contained zero information, which means it teaches us nothing.

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#167

Post by dang »

nottorp wrote: post #104
kaybe wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not, it's far too short for that. The way it is now it isn't even a decent invitation to discuss. dav43 could probably expand it into one easily though. What kind of bubble? Who's in it? Why do they think so? What are the consequences and what could be done about it? etc.

Well let me expand it again (i have another comment saying the same thing): HN readers are for the most part highly paid tech workers. Even in the US, tell someone who makes 30k/year that you spend 1K/year on someone's Patreon and he'll think you're crazy... or spit in your face.

> HN readers are for the most part highly paid tech workers

That's a false assumption. HN is much larger than you think, with people all over the US and all over the world. It has highly paid workers, lowly paid workers, people who don't need to work, and people who need to but can't find any.

We tend to make assumptions like "for the most part" based on the internal image when our pre-existing conditions meet a handful of striking data points—say the first 3 or so. And then we don't change it. But which data points happen to strike us are actually a function of our pre-existing conditions also. There are many other data points.

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#168

Post by dang »

dav43 wrote: post #120
dang wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. " " Don't be snarky. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

i can see my response may have needed a few extra words, however I think referring to my comment in such a fashion is slightly misleading. I’d hate to think that in this forum, just because a comment is short and succinct - what I thought to be a daily clear response, meaning “the authors live in a bubble of experience and expectations” - it is somehow lesser value that a comment that is long winded and without a cle…

If it doesn't seem to you like "God these guys live in a bubble" would come across as snarky and sarcastic, it would be good to recalibrate. From my perspective—and I'm pretty sure many other readers' also—it's an internet swipe of precisely the kind we don't want here.

Totally agree that long-winded, empty comments are not the recommended alternative. What we want is curious conversation: thoughtful, substantive comments that contain information. Drive-by putdowns kill that; hence the moderation replies.

Re: 1000 True Fans? Try 100

#169

Post by Anon84 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #103
lultimouomo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that he meant physiotherapy is scammy, just the concept of teaching it through online courses. If you take it a few steps further, e.g. online abdominal surgery courses, the point becomes more clear.

"Learn to perform emergency appendectomies in just one day!"

Emphasis on "emergency". If it wasn't a medical emergency before the appendectomy, it will be afterwards :)
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