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Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

caranddriver.com

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Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#161

Post by fgonzag »

bigcloud1299 wrote: post #81
MBCook wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did the focus cost $57k?

No. Point was that cars do have problems. And we can’t separate out one car mfg from Another. Regardless of price paid. Let’s not forget Gm sold cars with known ignition issues and Toyota with known air bag issues. At least Tesla are jeopardizing human lives as the former two did and probably do.

Ford would give me a loaner for regular service for my shelby gt 350. Literally 4-5 hours, and they'd let me ride around in a newer mustang GT or bullit.

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#162

Post by fgonzag »

ariwilson wrote: post #85
bigcloud1299 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Point was that cars do have problems. And we can’t separate out one car mfg from Another. Regardless of price paid. Let’s not forget Gm sold cars with known ignition issues and Toyota with known air bag issues. At least Tesla are jeopardizing human lives as the former two did and probably do.

Statistics can sort this out. How often do we hear about dead Toyotas vs dead Teslas?

The number you stated has to be divided by units sold, IMHO

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#163

Post by fgonzag »

m463 wrote: post #120
teachrdan wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am honestly surprised by your blasé reaction. To make an apples to apples comparison, have you ever had a: 1. New car, 2. Which cost almost $60,000, with 3. Fewer than 6000 miles, 4. Suffer a catastrophic failure (i.e. couldn't start with a jump), 5. While parked, 6. And had the manufacturer not communicate the source of failure, 7. Or how long it would take to fix? That, to me, seems almost unbelievable. I have en…

I disagree with your reaction. With any another car, the car would fail to start with a generic idiot light. You would then arrange to drop it with the dealer with no expectation of diagnosis on the spot. Later they would call you up and let you know. No manufacturer is immune to problems, even with very new cars. In this case the major difference is the car proactively notified the owner of the problem.

Most cars will limp to the dealer (except BMWs but they get as much flak as teslas for the behavior).

Most cars will absolutely not die while parked or turned off (I'm sure some will, but it won't be a common occurrence).

Most luxury brands will offer full service and a loaner (this is a 57k vehicle, well into M3/RS4/Porsche/AMG territory, which are considered premium vehicles on already luxury brands)

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#164

Post by m463 »

fgonzag wrote: post #163
m463 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with your reaction. With any another car, the car would fail to start with a generic idiot light. You would then arrange to drop it with the dealer with no expectation of diagnosis on the spot. Later they would call you up and let you know. No manufacturer is immune to problems, even with very new cars. In this case the major difference is the car proactively notified the owner of the problem.

Most cars will limp to the dealer (except BMWs but they get as much flak as teslas for the behavior). Most cars will absolutely not die while parked or turned off (I'm sure some will, but it won't be a common occurrence). Most luxury brands will offer full service and a loaner (this is a 57k vehicle, well into M3/RS4/Porsche/AMG territory, which are considered premium vehicles on already luxury brands)

wrt limping...

It's interesting that Tesla says this about the dual-motor version:

> Tesla All-Wheel Drive has two independent motors.

...

> Your car can drive on either motor, so you never need to worry about getting stuck on the road. If one motor stops working, you can safely continue to your destination with the second.

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#165

Post by jeffnappi »

ariwilson wrote: post #156
jeffnappi wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to the article they wrote about the drivetrain failure they had in their long term Ford Raptor[1]? 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23888636/2017-ford-f-1... "it ate a costly drivetrain part at only 40,000 miles."

Isn't it that article? In the previous paragraph: "After hitting 40,000 miles, the Raptor began complaining with a noisy, ill-shifting transfer case. The dealer replaced a damaged shift fork, the clutch assembly, and a handful of other worn internal parts under warranty—a fix that took a week."

My point is they didn't call it out in the headline or write an article focusing on the failure.

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#166

Post by jeffnappi »

fgonzag wrote: post #158
jeffnappi wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to the article they wrote about the drivetrain failure they had in their long term Ford Raptor[1]? 1. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23888636/2017-ford-f-1... "it ate a costly drivetrain part at only 40,000 miles."

The car still worked and managed to limp to the dealer, so it's not close to the same event. C&D is stating that they had never had a car become 100% useless while parked and turned off, and that every other luxury brand had offered tow service and a loaner. That's what made this particular event article worthy. I'm 100% sure that had this happened to any other brand, they would've done the same. You're not a C&D reg…

You're right that I am not a c&d regular, but I do have respect for them. I lumped them in with other publications that like to write sensationalized articles about Tesla. I'm still not 100% confident that they'd write an article if they had a similar failure in a mundane vehicle.

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#167

Post by rstuart4133 »

teachrdan wrote: post #52
ogre_codes wrote: post #29

I was very disappointed that the author's idea of Catastrophic was far less interesting than what I pictured in my head. It's definitely not the only time an expensive car has failed in the first 6,000 miles of use. Also, the author's assumption that ICE cars don't fail while parked is a bit of hairsplitting. This isn't much different from any of the dozen or so times I've driven somewhere and discovered my car won't…

I am honestly surprised by your blasé reaction. To make an apples to apples comparison, have you ever had a: 1. New car, 2. Which cost almost $60,000, with 3. Fewer than 6000 miles, 4. Suffer a catastrophic failure (i.e. couldn't start with a jump), 5. While parked, 6. And had the manufacturer not communicate the source of failure, 7. Or how long it would take to fix? That, to me, seems almost unbelievable. I have en…

One example doesn't tell you much.

This week a local freeway was shut down when a driver travelling down it noticed smoke coming out of the air-conditioning. He started to slow down, but then it caught alight. The scary thing was fire took hold so quickly he suffered burns before he could get out. That is the only time I've read about such a thing in the mass media. Which is an interesting statistic in itself - because I heard anecdotes about others peoples cars catching on fire while they were driving them several times. This particular time it shut down an inner city free way for a few hours - so it made the news.

And so it will be with this particular failure. I'm sure the only reason we heard about it is because it's a Tesla. Modern internal combustion engines are entirely computer controlled. They are far more complex to control that battery + electric motor, so the computer systems and sensor networks they have are commensurately more complex. They will not be going anywhere if that computer system fails - jump start or no jump start, so this sort of failure is not peculiar to EV's. Given the millions of cars out there I have absolutely no doubt coming back to a parked car only to discover the ECU has failed has happened many times. I also have absolutely no doubt I would not have heard about it. After all no one died, and "car won't start" is hardly news worthy unless it is a Tesla.

It may be there is a systemic fault with Tesla's - but there is no way you can tell from this one blog post. As for the bad dealer - I'm sort of surprised you think it is somehow exceptional.

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#168

Post by FDSGSG »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #145
FDSGSG wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The screen is attached to a computer that is able to prevent the car from turning on Ok? That computer isn't particularly adversarial. Presumably if you're capable of fixing this car yourself the computers will present you with no difficulty, if you don't know how to fix cars with computers then the Tesla probably isn't for you. > And there's no way to get diagnostic manuals Yeah, there is https://service.teslamotor…

> That computer isn't particularly adversarial. Oh, this won't be DRM-bound like half of what it does? If you're sure and not just guessing, good. > Yeah, there is https://service.teslamotors.com/ Oh, hey, that works outside of Massachusetts now, as of earlier this year. Wonderful. Next up, can you order parts without this procedure yet?: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19322223

>Oh, this won't be DRM-bound like half of what it does? If you're sure and not just guessing, good.

Not any more so than in similarly priced German cars.

>Next up, can you order parts without this procedure yet?

Sourcing parts via official channels continues to be difficult.

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#169

Post by perl4ever »

teachrdan wrote: post #52
ogre_codes wrote: post #29

I was very disappointed that the author's idea of Catastrophic was far less interesting than what I pictured in my head. It's definitely not the only time an expensive car has failed in the first 6,000 miles of use. Also, the author's assumption that ICE cars don't fail while parked is a bit of hairsplitting. This isn't much different from any of the dozen or so times I've driven somewhere and discovered my car won't…

I am honestly surprised by your blasé reaction. To make an apples to apples comparison, have you ever had a: 1. New car, 2. Which cost almost $60,000, with 3. Fewer than 6000 miles, 4. Suffer a catastrophic failure (i.e. couldn't start with a jump), 5. While parked, 6. And had the manufacturer not communicate the source of failure, 7. Or how long it would take to fix? That, to me, seems almost unbelievable. I have en…

I don't remember exactly how many miles it had, but I had a fairly new 2016 Honda Accord that had an electrical failure of some sort that left me stuck in a parking lot with a warning from the computer that the battery and alternator weren't working.

It is possible this, or the head gasket problem, was related to a previous warranty repair being done incorrectly - originally it had an internal engine problem, which did not leave me stranded but sounded terrible and scared me that the dealer would blame me and not honor the warranty.

And "coincidentally" I have read quite a few times recently that Honda is struggling with reliability in recent years.

I am probably not going to own a Honda again, but I would still be more comfortable with one than a Tesla simply because of the local dealer service.

Re: Our Tesla Model 3 Suffered a Failure While Parked

#170

Post by perl4ever »

ogre_codes wrote: post #154
romaaeterna wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That ONE Tesla failed with fewer than 6,000 miles is not surprising or remotely concerning. Yeah, it "just happened" to be one owned by Car and Driver. If they are seeing this sort of failure with review models, you can be sure that the real failure rate is big.

How can I be sure? Why would the other owners keep quiet about it, some grand conspiracy? Everything that happens with Tesla gets amplified 10 fold. If the failure rate was "big", I'm certain we'd have heard about it by now. Regardless, this isn't a special review unit, C&D leased the Tesla from the dealer like any other schmuck, it was just luck of the draw. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29515368/tesla-model-3-…

"Everything that happens with Tesla gets amplified 10 fold"

Well, one reason people do that is because of the ridiculous things everybody has been saying for years - like how electric cars are inherently way more reliable than ICE vehicles.

It's like how certain people get enraged over short sellers influencing stock prices, and somehow it doesn't occur to them that way more information is distorted in favor of public companies.

And sure, there's no reason to think it was a special unit, but that's the best case, and it's not rational to assume the most likely case is the best.

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