Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Child Care Is So Expensive

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 522 posts

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#161

Post by mc3 »

yters wrote: post #156

If child care is so expensive, wouldn't the income loss of one parent staying at home be irrelevant? Plus, the parent could find some simple side gigs that fit into at home childcare, or even do paid childcare themselves. I think the real problem is people don't like taking care of kids, and would rather have a stranger do the job. Understandable since kids are noisy, disobedient, stinky little things, but we were al…

> Parent could find some simple side gigs

Highly unlikely! Maybe for a 4 year old there could be some time during the day. Let's say 1 hour. The type of gig where you can do an hour of work and be paid for it ... won't pay much. Let's say $20. It is hardly worth it. Now compare that to being at work.

> I think the real problem is people don't like taking care of kids, and would rather have a stranger do the job.

I don't think so. Taking care of your own kids is much more rewarding than going to work. If work is better it's because the job is great, not because the kids are annoying. Staying at home looking after kids is a lot easier. If you work you have a limited window to get them ready for care, it's a rush, then you have to commute to work, rush back to childcare after work, and then take them home and get them ready super quick for bed. It is not ideal, and not really a choice based on laziness.

> Understandable since kids are noisy, disobedient, stinky little things.

Ok..... That's one way to characterize them I guess. Seems a bit harsh.

> So, the real reason child care is so expensive is because we aren't willing to suck up and stick out with the imperfections of other human beings without a paycheck.

The real reason is it takes a lot of labour to look after the kids, administer the centre, cook, and also real estate and maintenance of property etc. And people pay for it because they need to work to afford to raise kids.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#162

Post by ergothus »

F_J_H wrote: post #104
jperras wrote: post #7

It doesn't have to be this way. Québec has had subsidized daycare for almost 25 years, and the program literally pays for itself (and more!) via increased income taxes from parents that would have otherwise chosen to stay at home. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/12/affordable-daycare-su... > In Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, a day of child care cost on average $10 in 2016 > Quebec’s program, which introduced lo…

"pays for itself...via increased income taxes"? It's a "nit pick" for sure, but in my understanding, something that "pays for itself" is not dependent on government subsidies. Quebec has some of the highest income taxes in the country - you pay for such services one way or another. Plus, according to the linked article, there is not enough space in the subsidized program to meet demand, so there are private options a…

> something that "pays for itself" is not dependent on government subsidies.

I think you are ignoring the aggregate here. A govt program can "pay for itself" in ways private action cant because the govt can help smooth out risk among the participants.

Your point that this is ultimately funded by taxpayers is correct, but that doesnt mean the program cant generate more in new tax revenue than it costs. Like roads, education, and other areas, reliable and affordable child care can enable a lot.

(Note I have no actual knowledge of the specifics, so I'm arguing what is possible, not what is definitely happening)

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#163

Post by aSplash0fDerp »

ecoled_ame wrote: post #23

I'm glad the population is mind-bogglingly large so I don't feel obligated to have kids. I can save a lot of money and enjoy peace & quiet while I get better at skateboarding and science and playing video games. Plus, no wife. I never have to do things I don't want to. I never have to please anybody. It rocks.

You sound like you may fall into the category of having a brood later in life (the 50yo+ untethered sugar daddy demographic).

IMO, unless you find a partner that's going the same direction, you're doing the right thing while you're young.

Its a nice perk that in modern times we can have children in our 50's and still live long enough to see them into adulthood (though maybe not see them raise a family if they follow in your footsteps).

I think the trifecta you're looking for is.. No Kids, No Alimony... And NO CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS during the best years of your life. If they call you selfish, ask them if they regret their freedom of choice. Theres a good chance they were never free.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#164

Post by jandrese »

mirekrusin wrote: post #158
cortesoft wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she did have a career she wanted to continue, the calculation is pretty strong on the 'riding it out until school'. You have to count ALL the salary you are going to make for the next 30-40 years of working, because sitting out for 5 years will have an effect on your income your entire career.

Unless she gets the job a the daycare - I hear they have money to pay well?

The article actually says that the salaries are pretty terrible, but insurance, facilities, and regulations make it expensive to the parents.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#166

Post by rb808 »

ChaosDegenerate wrote: post #6

The thing with female workforce participation: isn't it just symptom of the society getting poorer. My wife worked her ass off. I was making about 130k / year. She was making about 60k / year. Then we not only moved from the US to Poland (where live is just so much cheaper). But I also started making about 330k / year. All the willingness to work evaporated on her part :-) Instead we have another kid. She stopped tal…

Wow you're the second guy I met that went home to a good salary. Is this a manager role I guess? My cousin in law is making like 10 zl/hr so I'm not sure what is going on.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#167

Post by hnuser77 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #47
ChaosDegenerate wrote: post #6

The thing with female workforce participation: isn't it just symptom of the society getting poorer. My wife worked her ass off. I was making about 130k / year. She was making about 60k / year. Then we not only moved from the US to Poland (where live is just so much cheaper). But I also started making about 330k / year. All the willingness to work evaporated on her part :-) Instead we have another kid. She stopped tal…

The US consumer was massively expanding (mostly) his credit during the 50s-80s. This is the American "Golden Age". There's no further room to expand credit -- we tried it in mid 90s-00s and it didn't work out. There was never a time anywhere in the history of the world where one working man could work a low-skilled laborer's job and comfortably provide for a family of four.

This completely defies logic, considering that 2 kids is replacement level fertility, the world has experienced generally consistent population growth, and most of the labor ever done in the world has been low-skilled labor.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#168

Post by giarc »

jperras wrote: post #86
jawns wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about the other side of the coin: Parents who would like to stay at home and provide care to their own children, but who feel as if they cannot because of financial constraints. Does this program do anything to help them?

That's actually one of the not-so-great facets of this program. It demands a minimum of 80% participation, meaning that if you wanted to stay at home to take care of your children but use subsidized daycare 1-2 days a week to give yourself a break, it's currently not possible. If a child is absent for more than 20% of the "regular" schedule, then the daycare loses that subsidy spot due to it being under-utilized. The…

The issue is likely matching up these spaces. What if parent A wants care on Monday and Tuesday but not Wed-Fri. The daycare then needs to find parent B that wants Wed-Fri. That might be easy in large cities, but in small towns that might only have a handful of daycares that becomes much more difficult. Additionally, since there are mandatory staff to kid ratios, part time parents make scheduling really difficult.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#169

Post by PaulHoule »

bluedino wrote: post #96
PaulHoule wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See this Liz Warren book: https://www.amazon.com/Two-Income-Trap-Middle-Class-Parents-... Henry Ford realized that the automobile was not going to change the world unless auto workers were so productive that they could easily afford the cars they made. That kind of productivity increase is not possible w/ Childcare. I remember a Z Magazine cartoon more than 20 years ago where two women were pondering the mystery of w…

In my state, a single childcare worker can watch up to 6 children. If they are infants I belive the number goes down to 4.

That is not a lot to work with.

If there wasn't any overhead, the childcare worker with one infant would pay 1/4 of their wages on childcare, which doesn't leave a lot for housing, food, transportation, student loans, etc. They are only infants so long however...

Actually there is overhead, the child care center has to pay for a building, administrators, marketing, and possibly taxes.

Contrast that to the auto worker, who probably gets a new car relatively often, let's say it works out like a $300 a month, or $3600 a year.

I think auto workers are relatively well paid, so the cost of that car is 5% of their wages as opposed to 20% or more.

Re: Why Child Care Is So Expensive

#170

Post by cortesoft »

agumonkey wrote: post #143
cortesoft wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be very careful about making that large a generalization (that all else being equal, women would prefer to stay home over working). Childcare is mind numbing work, especially with young kids. Sure, some women (and men) would prefer that, but a LOT of women prefer office work over raising children. "why not to enjoy life instead of spending 50-60 hours at the office?" is really selling short how much work rais…

I think most parents are exhausted to their knees with kids. But they also ~all say that it's their life's blood (I mean the energy, not blood ties obv.). A job rarely gives you that much meaning.

I know I think I am a much better parent having daycare during the week. I am able to give a lot more to my kids when I am with them since I get that break. I think overall, it improves our relationship.
Post reply on HN