British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest • Hacker News Board

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#161

Post by ghostbrainalpha » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #147

jobigoud wrote: post #3

> In a race against time, doctors treating Mrs Schoeman turned to a specialised machine capable of removing blood, infusing it with oxygen and reintroducing it to the patient. > Once her body temperature had reached 30C, they used a defibrillator to jump-start her heart some six hours after emergency services were contacted. > Mrs Schoeman was released from hospital 12 days later, with only some lingering issues with…

Just out of curiosity - would one (say like a soldier) be able to effectively 'pre-emptively' wear a device in a backpack which has a permanent-ish lead to the circulatory system which does multiple things: Provides a constant flow of oxygenated blood which allows for higher endurance, longer "holding of breath", and in the case of severe injury, oxygenated blood circulation to prevent death (unless there is catastro…

The U.S. military has already tried basically this twice.

Once back in the late 40's to for fighter pilots, and again in the 90's, a practice they called "Blood loading".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_doping

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#162

Post by uberduber » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:16 PM UTC

amluto wrote: post #100

mercutio2 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, patients should go to urgent care for minor health issues that are unlikely to require a fully outfitted trauma and surgical unit. Conveniently, they’re also much easier to get to in urban areas. Urgent care would have had something closer to a $100 markup than $2,000, because you’re only paying for a few nurses and doctors to be on call, not for having used the resources that are meant for trauma and acut…

You mean how the Bay Area, which is fairly urban, has precious few urgent care clinics open until 10 pm and, I believe, literally none open after 10pm? I went to one of these urgent care clinics once and got charged $650 for about 5 minutes of doctor time and a single DermaBond stick. The latter costs something like $20. Oh yeah, I asked how much I would be charged before the doc saw me and they refused to answer. $1…

In LA, Hispanic neighborhoods have 24 hour urgent cares but the doctor quality is all over the place though usually bad.

Urgent cares used to be pretty upfront. I went to an urgent care a couple of years ago, $99 advertised in the window. I go in, fill out all the paperwork and they tell me it's going to be $150. When I point to the window, she says it's expired. I start to walk out and she tells me to come back and gives me price. This is not the only time I've had to walk out over various health things, it's ridiculous. They think you won't do it because you're ill and act that getting angry over this is some sort of insane response. So now I just pretend not to have the extra money.

Anyway, I use Heal now. So happy that the VCs are funding this, hope it lasts.

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#163

Post by rpiguy » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

jugg1es wrote: post #111

rpiguy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrational yes. Broken, no just optimized differently than other systems. The system is optimized to serve those who can afford it and those who are very poor and get it for free, but not those in between. It is optimized to generate profit, but also new treatments. Rich people from all over the world come here for surgery and treatment. The pricing system is intentionally designed to be opaque so that everyone excep…

The premise of your argument falls apart if you really think about it for a minute. Switching to a single-payer model doesn't mean healthcare jobs disappear. It would kill off the insurance companies, but it would not reduce the demand for skilled healthcare workers. It seems like you are arguing that 'socializing' medicine requires that we get rid of hospitals entirely. We could still have for-profit hospitals if we…

No socialized system pays what our system pays.

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#164

Post by rpiguy » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #114

eptcyka wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the industry is good at generating revenue doesn't necessarily mean that the quality of service is any better. Do you have some data to back up your claim that medical services in the United States are world leading? Are they better than what one would receive in Europe or Japan or South Korea? Personally, I think it's unethical to keep a process inefficient even if the inefficiencies are profitable. And…

About 5 years ago I took a health care policy class and we looked into this. In terms of outcomes, the U.S. was thoroughly mediocre, except for breast cancer and diabetes, where we were at the head of the pack (in terms of treatment) but not, say, better by a multiple. The fact that the US has many leading medical research institutions is often abused to argue that we have the best care, but it's largely irrelevant f…

As I said it’s optimized differently.

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#165

Post by rpiguy » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #92

rpiguy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrational yes. Broken, no just optimized differently than other systems. The system is optimized to serve those who can afford it and those who are very poor and get it for free, but not those in between. It is optimized to generate profit, but also new treatments. Rich people from all over the world come here for surgery and treatment. The pricing system is intentionally designed to be opaque so that everyone excep…

> Furthermore, it is one of the only growing industries that provides many opportunities for women. Not many women want to move to Montana to frack shale oil. Is this supposed to be a good argument to drive desperate people into bankruptcy?

Did I ever argue against improving the system or imply these bankruptcies should happen? I just said I’d take this system over alternatives not that it couldn’t be improved.

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#166

Post by rpiguy » Fri, Dec 06, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

VHRanger wrote: post #106

rpiguy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irrational yes. Broken, no just optimized differently than other systems. The system is optimized to serve those who can afford it and those who are very poor and get it for free, but not those in between. It is optimized to generate profit, but also new treatments. Rich people from all over the world come here for surgery and treatment. The pricing system is intentionally designed to be opaque so that everyone excep…

> Start socializing medicine and all that job growth and opportunity disappears. Pegging growth to systemic inefficiency is monumentally stupid. This is only a few steps of abstraction away from simply paying those nurses to dig holes then fill them back up, macroeconomically.

Growth occurs organically in a market system. It does not in a socialized system. I was not associating growth with inefficiency - I was associating high pay with it.

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#167

Post by benmaraschino » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 12:11 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #147

jobigoud wrote: post #3

> In a race against time, doctors treating Mrs Schoeman turned to a specialised machine capable of removing blood, infusing it with oxygen and reintroducing it to the patient. > Once her body temperature had reached 30C, they used a defibrillator to jump-start her heart some six hours after emergency services were contacted. > Mrs Schoeman was released from hospital 12 days later, with only some lingering issues with…

Just out of curiosity - would one (say like a soldier) be able to effectively 'pre-emptively' wear a device in a backpack which has a permanent-ish lead to the circulatory system which does multiple things: Provides a constant flow of oxygenated blood which allows for higher endurance, longer "holding of breath", and in the case of severe injury, oxygenated blood circulation to prevent death (unless there is catastro…

It’s not practical. Patients on ECMO require anticoagulation, as do patients on cardiopulmonary bypass. This is a problem common to all systems which expose blood to foreign surfaces and pass it through pumps. Your hypothetical anticoagulated soldier with such a pump would bleed out lickety-split were they to suffer as much as a minor cut.

Also, such a system would likely require giant cannulae placed in rather inconvenient places, e.g., the neck, thigh, or chest, as in ECMO. That would limit movement significantly.

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#168

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 1:57 AM UTC

phigcch wrote: post #79

There's a nice research article from 2016 by doctors in northern Norway about resuscitation of frozen patients: “Nobody is dead until warm and dead”: Prolonged resuscitation is warranted in arrested hypothermic victims also in remote areas – A retrospective study from northern Norway J. Hilmo, T. Naesheim, M. Gilbert https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030095721... (open access, CC licence) Same hospit…

[deleted]

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#169

Post by nwallin » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 3:14 AM UTC

smh58 wrote: post #138

Correction: his complications happened Because he was at the hospital. People don't realize this. They use these cases as examples why home births are dangerous, yet ignore the fact that the hospital environment and interventions are the cause of most complications.

The leading cause of death among women before modern medicine was childbirth. Childbirth without medical care is incredibly dangerous.

Re: British woman revived after six-hour cardiac arrest

#170

Post by thrwn_frthr_awy » Sat, Dec 07, 2019, 3:19 AM UTC

smh58 wrote: post #138

Correction: his complications happened Because he was at the hospital. People don't realize this. They use these cases as examples why home births are dangerous, yet ignore the fact that the hospital environment and interventions are the cause of most complications.

My son would be dead if was delivered at home.