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How to run your own mail server (2017)

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Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#161
post #22

Then you realize the true pain of having a near-zero reputation when trying to email anything to people on Gmail, Yahoo, Live, etc, etc. Expect to go to spam even if you have DKIM, SPF, and no relaying. If anyone actually knows the secret to not having your own mail-server's mail go to spam on these bigger systems, please tell, I've Googled it for years with no success.

There is no one secret you can google.

There is also no need to perpetuate the fear of running your own email. Decentralization of core internet services helps us all, not just the person doing it. So to anyone seriously interested and willing to learn, I highly recommend running your own email servers.

If you expect 100% delivery rate, you won't necessarily get that, no matter who is running your email infrastructure. At multiple companies, I've seen email end up in spam even though it is sent from gmail-hosted company account to gmail-hosted company account. So that's the bar you want to meet or beat and beating it is not hard.

From ~7 years experience now, I don't observe any problems with email delivery. I don't do anything special. I use postfix, it is well configured and everything works fine. I host several personal domains and a couple small business domains.

And by doing so I avoid giving google the power to cut me off from email because some arbitrary ML gone bad.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true! But when I last talked with them, I couldn't figure out a disaster recovery plan. They had no way for me to back up my users' mail aside from IMAP syncing. Which means I'd have to know my users' passwords. Which seemed slightly more ridiculous than just continuing to host my own mail.

Two options: 1. share everyone's mailboxes to an admin user who does the backup via IMAP. 2. create an app-password for each user which can be used to backup that user. This can be done as an admin user on your account. Neither of them require knowing the user's password - an admin can override into each account unless it's specifically locked down to deny that. It does require a separate app password per account, we…

Ah, interesting! Yes, I'd be fine with either of those. Right now I'm just backing up via rsync of the maildir tree, so it's not like these are any worse. I just didn't want to a) know my user's passwords, and b) have to have them give it to me any time they changed it.

Thanks for the tip. Maybe my Christmas present to myself will be to murder my mailserver!

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#163
post #97
post #22

Then you realize the true pain of having a near-zero reputation when trying to email anything to people on Gmail, Yahoo, Live, etc, etc. Expect to go to spam even if you have DKIM, SPF, and no relaying. If anyone actually knows the secret to not having your own mail-server's mail go to spam on these bigger systems, please tell, I've Googled it for years with no success.

(I'm the author of TFA.) I have never had this issue. Generally the issue is either IP reputation of your server (common with VPS providers if you get a recycled IP of a previous spammer) or your domain name. Otherwise you are probably just unlucky enough to tickle the spam-prevention mechanisms in the almighty "algorithm" run by $BIGMAILER. I keep one "normie" email address at a $BIGMAILER for situations like this,…

Honestly, you should put this quote in bold letters atop that article:

> I mostly just shrug if some big advertising/surveillance company's email system won't deliver my mail, I just won't email that person.

Because that changes the tone of the opening paragraphs significantly:

> Luckily, running your own mail server is not as daunting as many would have you believe.

Sure, if you can afford to shrug off deliverability issues to major e-mail providers. Then it is, I daresay, a walk in the park!

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#164
post #11

EVERYONE did this for decades. Then EVERYONE stopped because it's awful. Modern ISPs don't like SMTP floating around, (DKIM, DMARC, SPF) are a pain to maintain over time, exploits will happen, and your free off-the-shelf virus and spam filters suck compared to the big companies seeing billions of messages per day.

I would love to do it again. Mail stopped inboxing, ever, with people I regularly corresponded with in the mid 2010s. I had to stop.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#165
post #11

EVERYONE did this for decades. Then EVERYONE stopped because it's awful. Modern ISPs don't like SMTP floating around, (DKIM, DMARC, SPF) are a pain to maintain over time, exploits will happen, and your free off-the-shelf virus and spam filters suck compared to the big companies seeing billions of messages per day.

> your free off-the-shelf virus and spam filters suck compared to the big companies seeing billions of messages per day

gmail spam filtering is quite bad, in both directions. Legit email goes to spam (even when sent from gmail itself) and spam does get through.

The basic open source tools are actually very, very good at it. I get about 0-2 spams a month, everything else is caught by either my postfix configuration or by spamprobe. And I never get legit email in my spam spool.

This is a much better success rate than what I observe at my gmail account.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#166

I feel like if people are gonna take back email this process needs to be easier; like a single application with a web front-end. Hosting email is a pain! This is why everyone seems to outsource their email hosting. Read the comments in the 2017 discussion. Favorite quote: "I run my own mail infrastructure. To say the least I wouldn't recommend it even to my worst enemies. It's horrible." https://news.ycombinator.com/…

iRedMail rolls everything into a convenient package. The basic tier (no tech support) is free.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#167
My email server (@chrisdone.com) has been running for a year and a half and is written in Haskell, saves all mail into a postgresql database, has a web interface and an Emacs interface. https://github.com/chrisdone/duta

I redirected my gmail account to forward all emails to this new domain, and changed all my account emails to theservicename@chrisdone.com e.g. for github it’s git@chrisdone.com. Once I’m done, Gmail won’t be receiving any new mail.

It has SPF which has captured most spam. I haven’t implemented sending yet. I thought this would be a problem initially, but after a year I’ve realized I rarely send personal email out. But I’ll do it one day just for completeness.

I’ve found two bugs of my server, which were easy to debug because mail sending is very robust. I fixed the bug, and the sender server tried again the next day automatically.

I did it for exactly the same reasons as the author, to control my own data. I wrote my own because existing open source offferings are silly complicated, but receiving mail is not.

Duta is easy to deploy with docker machine and DigitalOcean. My current setup has been deployed like this. It connects to a managed DO Postgres database, which runs separately, has monitoring and backups, so it’s easy to redeploy the mail server without worrying about losing my data.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#169
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun is a very curious way of putting it, considering how batshit crazy IMAP is. The rest of the involved email standards are also a huge dumpster fire. I'll let Ricardo Signes do the talking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JENdgiAPD6c

Why would you need to deal with IMAP at all for a webmail client? If the mail server is the one hosting the webmail frontend, you could read the Maildir or mbox (or whatever you're using to store emails) directly. IMAP's only really relevant for locally-installed clients (i.e. the exact thing webmail's supposed to replace).

If I were to write a webmail client for either myself or as a non-toy-project, I would definitely want to be able to host the webmail backend somewhere else than the MTA/MDA, and especially not give the webmail full access to every user's email.

That leaves you with either using some protocol that already exists (IMAP or now JMAP as another persion mentioned in the thread) or coming up with my own.

Re: How to run your own mail server (2017)

#170
post #97
post #22

Then you realize the true pain of having a near-zero reputation when trying to email anything to people on Gmail, Yahoo, Live, etc, etc. Expect to go to spam even if you have DKIM, SPF, and no relaying. If anyone actually knows the secret to not having your own mail-server's mail go to spam on these bigger systems, please tell, I've Googled it for years with no success.

(I'm the author of TFA.) I have never had this issue. Generally the issue is either IP reputation of your server (common with VPS providers if you get a recycled IP of a previous spammer) or your domain name. Otherwise you are probably just unlucky enough to tickle the spam-prevention mechanisms in the almighty "algorithm" run by $BIGMAILER. I keep one "normie" email address at a $BIGMAILER for situations like this,…

My IP reputation is absolutely >>pureStill, usually when sending emails to Gmail & Hotmail my emails are "lost" (they don't even appear in the spam-inbox of the receivers).

My usual workaround used to be to 1) login into my throwaway-account on their Gmail/Hotmail systems 2) send an email to my domain 3) reply to that email. After that usually my emails got accepted by those service providers, at least for a while.

I admit that nowadays I don't even do that anymore - when I see a Gmail/Hotmail recipient I just ask for another email address at a different provider or I send the email using my provider's system.

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