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Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

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Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#161

Post by methodover »

JansjoFromIkea wrote: post #122
methodover wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen a couple comments saying that it’s the non-SWE’s that are the liberal ones. That’s a very different experience than my own, and that of my friends. My experience: Designers tend to be pretty liberal. Product managers and other managers tend to be moderate (tend to be Biden and Buttigieg fans). Salespeople tend to be extremely conservative. Support is kind of all over the place. Engineers tend to be either d…

"diehard" seems like a stretch when you consider how much support there tends to be for unionisation (and most of us could get by on way less than we make, so it's not like we don't have to power to take some stands)... Lot of social democrats in my neck of the woods for sure but in US terms it'd be way more Warren than Sanders, and she is absolutely not a socialist from what I can see.

You’re totally right.

I meant socialist in the same way that Bernie Sanders seems to use it, which I have trouble distinguishing from Warren’s states policies. (I do agree that the traditional definition of word applies to neither Warren’s or Sanders’ policies for the most part. Except for the health insurance industry, where the proposal is nationalization.)

I should have said social democrat. Indeed, now that I think about it, few engineers would label themselves socialist. I don’t, though I am a Warren/Sanders supporter.

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#162

Post by fmajid »

mc32 wrote: post #59
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #54

What a surprise. I'd love to be a billionaire, but I like Sanders opinions about whether they should exist. I'd love to be worth enough for it to hurt me, but I like Warren's wealth tax idea. I'd love to pay lower taxes, or less progressive taxes, but I'm happy to support those less fortunate. As a matter of fact, I'm not even a single-issue voter! Perhaps most controversially, I think altruism is good for society. S…

>”What a crazy idea, voting against your own interest. gasp!” I know you mean it differently but people in the middle class get accused of voting against their interests and it’s said as something negative in their political choices.

"A real patriot is the fellow who gets a parking ticket and rejoices that the system works." -- Bill Vaughan

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#164

Post by RickJWagner »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #54

What a surprise. I'd love to be a billionaire, but I like Sanders opinions about whether they should exist. I'd love to be worth enough for it to hurt me, but I like Warren's wealth tax idea. I'd love to pay lower taxes, or less progressive taxes, but I'm happy to support those less fortunate. As a matter of fact, I'm not even a single-issue voter! Perhaps most controversially, I think altruism is good for society. S…

It's all fun and games until it actually becomes law. Then it'd actually happen, and tech workers would be paid like everyone else.

It's sort of like the billionaires that beg for higher taxes, yet can't quite find a way to just write the check unless their politician makes them.

Or the media stars who plead nonstop for climate change, yet live in giant houses and travel solo on jets.

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#165

Post by pmoriarty »

option wrote: post #25
pytester wrote: post #5

Wasn't too surprised to see that Bloomberg neglected to mention a pretty self evident reason why tech workers might want that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... I'm pretty sure that if the anti-trust litigation in 2001 hadn't battered microsoft then tech wages would not be as high today. Competition among employers is good for wages, and the fewer and bigger the employers, the less the co…

I am not quite sure that smaller companies can offer higher wages. Also, keep in mind a story of Bell Labs - the innovation power house hugely responsible for tens of Nobel Prize winning inventions such as transistor and solar cells. You need an insanely rich and powerful parent company to fund something like this (only Alphabet is kind pf doing it these days)

"You need an insanely rich and powerful parent company to fund something like this"

Or the US government, which funds the overwhelming majority of basic research in the world.

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#166

Post by option »

pmoriarty wrote: post #165
option wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not quite sure that smaller companies can offer higher wages. Also, keep in mind a story of Bell Labs - the innovation power house hugely responsible for tens of Nobel Prize winning inventions such as transistor and solar cells. You need an insanely rich and powerful parent company to fund something like this (only Alphabet is kind pf doing it these days)

"You need an insanely rich and powerful parent company to fund something like this" Or the US government, which funds the overwhelming majority of basic research in the world.

I’d say we need both.

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#167

Post by pmoriarty »

esotericn wrote: post #102
xen2xen1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote is highly contingent on one thing, that a man's salary is hard to replace. For most of humanity, it is. I'd wager if you work at a FANNG company you don't view it that way. Hard to get quite as much, maybe, but getting some making $250k to move to $200k a year is much, much different than someone moving from $45 a year to $30k a year, or $25k a year.

I don't think you can generalize that much. Personally none of that stuff mattered once I earned more than like, twice minimum wage. Nowhere near $200K. Maybe that's a US thing, since you guys have so much tied up in work (health insurance etc). I just think about having enough money to get by and help people around me, employment fits around that, not the other way around. Sure, people who are actually earning biscu…

"FWIW I don't work in adtech, I think it's bollocks and that everyone doing it should stop."

We should try to follow the money from adtech to those who are providing their life blood: companies buying advertising (which is nearly all companies).

As long as there is a demand for advertising, some people will work at adtech companies and others who service that need.

That's not to say that anyone who cares about privacy and is against manipulating others through advertising shouldn't be discouraged from working at adtech companies: they absolutely should. But the situation is similar to people working as part of drug cartels: they are meeting a demand, and no amount of finger wagging at them is going to change most of their minds.

For serious change to happen we have to find and address the root issues, which are really on the demand side rather than (ultimately) at the supply side.

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#168

Post by alfalfasprout »

One thing I've definitely noticed is the culture of fear in tech about not appearing "progressive enough". Given that tech workers, especially in the bay area tend to come from fairly privileged backgrounds with relative financial stability and also live in safer areas they tend to underestimate the importance of reducing crime and maintaining a strong economy.

This definitely provides a "psychological safety net" that tends to push a lot of these people to vote for more radical leftist candidates that may be directly against their self (and future children's) interests.

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#169

Post by g00gler »

option wrote: post #157
toast0 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restructuring the company as Alphabet with a set of subsidiaries was a start to setting up lines to divide the company along. The way to divide up Google is into the ad network, the search engine, operating systems, and everything else. Allow them to contract each other on public FRAND terms to start with, but setup annual reviews to consider a bigger hammer. If they play games with moving house to avoid jurisdiction…

you do understand that ad network pays for search engine, right? And operating systems isn’t exactly a profit generator either...

You can also say the search engine and operating system drive the ad network.

Google the search engine could charge an ad network a lot for the right to show sponsored results and provide analytics.

Android/Chrome could charge a lot for user data, analytics, have their own mobile ad network and app store. Android could also start charging a licensing fee to vendors

Etc etc

Re: Tech Workers Backing Candidates Looking to Break Up Their Employers

#170

Post by torben-friis »

esotericn wrote: post #31

This is only surprising if you subscribe strictly to Sinclair's quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." In reality, many many people work at jobs that they don't believe in. I personally haven't been able to hack it - I'm too stubborn to keep my mouth shut at appropriate times. But ultimately, people can and will vote against "their own self…

>In reality, many many people work at jobs that they don't believe in. I personally haven't been able to hack it - I'm too stubborn to keep my mouth shut at appropriate times.

I'm in that situation, and I don't shut up either. I can't even count the amount of times I've said something along the lines of "this is not the way to do things, I can do it anyway since you pay me for it but I think it's a bad decision".

My company basically just humors me by hearing my complaint and doesn't make any change whatsoever. I get my salary anyway.

It's not the best situation to be in, but I'm sure it's not uncommon at all...

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