I'd like to get a feel about what volume of employees have an issue with these things. From issue to issue I hear about various forms of employees making themselves heard but it is REALLY hard to jive with what that means. We've seen Google employees post about some ideas that seemed to be genuinely popular (measure that how you will...) but later ideas or advocacy were reportedly far less supported by the general em…
GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
161–170 of 708 posts
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
If all the employees with morals leave, GitHub will be left with no employees with morals. That is probably a worse situation.
This points to the heart of my internal debate on philosophical positioning: When is it the most moral option to not resign from companies that openly conflict with your moral compass but to fight from the inside and struggle day-by-day? I haven't come to any definitive conclusion, but my basic thought is: (A) If you and your allies have a decent opportunity to build a worthy competitor or work for one ( ie: a simila…
Maybe the most moral thing to do would be, should you find yourself employed at an immoral company -- Fight to do everything in your power to change the company's course, while drawing your salary (and thus their resources), and not contributing towards the immoral actions at all? Basically you'd be forcing them to fire you at some point, but until then, you're fighting against it for as long as possible and thus hopefully maximizing the chance of changing course.
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
Children are generally not separated from their parents when their parents commit non-violent minor offenses. Crossing a border is, at the least, non-violent. How major or minor it is is debatable. The basis of your argument is wrong. What else ya got?
Children are generally not separated from their parents when their parents commit non-violent minor offenses Children are separated from parents every damn day in cases of neglect or endangerment. Hell, we get CPS involved when a kid is left unattended in a car or alone at home, or even if a home is dangerously unkempt. Dragging children across two thousand miles of desert and multiple borders (where many die en rout…
> Dragging children across two thousand miles of desert and multiple borders (where many die en route) is far worse endangerment.
Would you say the same thing about children dragged across the Atlantic Ocean on cramped boats to arrive at Ellis Island?
I really don't think "endangerment" is a reasonable description of this situation. Parents are doing it because it's what they believe is best for the kids, because conditions are more dangerous where the kids are.
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#164It seems that these kinds of demands are becoming more common. Is it because conflict resolution is becoming a dying art, is it because people don't rise to the level of maturity of past times? I just find it to be confusing. Non PW link: https://archive.ph/IkYQ3
As well as a dramatically shifted power dynamic whereby the 40 hour workweek is a relic of the past, and people work 2-3 jobs just to scrape by. It's easier to say "burn it down" when you're already in the flames.
It's also, depending on who you ask, one of the few avenues left for people to affect change on a larger scale. Literally nothing else is working, and internal revolts have changed quite a few minds.
Employee activism is a necessary and under-powered force to help manage the insatiable greed of board members.
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
Trying to understand the opinion being communicated here. People shouldn't protest things they disagree with? People have a duty to be loyal to their employer's every decision?
No, people should leave situations they're uncomfortable with. Vote with your feet.
Why should they give up and run away instead of staying and fighting? Why is the former better than the latter? Personally I prefer to tackle challenges head-on rather than giving up.
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#166I'd like to get a feel about what volume of employees have an issue with these things. From issue to issue I hear about various forms of employees making themselves heard but it is REALLY hard to jive with what that means. We've seen Google employees post about some ideas that seemed to be genuinely popular (measure that how you will...) but later ideas or advocacy were reportedly far less supported by the general em…
I also have to wonder what percentage of GitHub’s employees _are_ non-US citizens. Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners; if they see U.S. immigration as an adversary, they may be opposing any contract on personal grounds.
Even if a significant portion of GitHub's employees are non-US citizens, it's highly unlikely they're illegals.
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#167Topics like this, I think, give us an opportunity to go deeper on the issues and concepts surrounding what's going on. I realize that the common quick answer these days is to harshly reject people and organizations we deeply disagree with. But, there may be some things worth pondering, like... Is there a way technology companies can influence these organizations and the situations of the people they touch for the bet…
Arguing that “they’ll do it anyway” is why IBM supported the holocaust, why companies like NSO sell to to human rights rights abusers, etc.
The argument basically boils down to supporting literally anything. If enough people start saying “no, we won’t support that”, it pushes up the price of the behaviour, and could eventually lead to the entire industry dropping support - for example when all the pharmaceutical companies decide to stop allowing their drugs to be used for executions.
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#168If anyone thinks Github boycotting ICE will change anything of ICE's conduct, that to me is some kind of Delusions of Grandeur. The money involved are a tiny part of a forgotten section of their budget.
If they don't think it will change anything, we can agree that this boycott is purely symbolic and will accomplish nothing.
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also have to wonder what percentage of GitHub’s employees _are_ non-US citizens. Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners; if they see U.S. immigration as an adversary, they may be opposing any contract on personal grounds.
> Every programming job I’ve ever had in the U.S. was for a company that was staffed by at least 90% foreigners. Where the hell are you working? I'm going to call bullshit, because it's really not that easy to get a work visa in the US. You're saying 90% of your colleagues weren't US citizens?
Pretty much true for most large tech companies, at least in the SF Bay Area. I've worked at 2 large and 1 small tech co and it was only the small company that had mostly US citizens (mostly because of the cost of dealing with immigration lawyers etc)
Re: GitHub tries to quell employee anger over its ICE contract
#170It’s really sad that GitHub, once a great company, sold to total military-industrial complex bastards.