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Stripe to move to South San Francisco

sfchronicle.com

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Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#161

Post by mavelikara »

dawg- wrote: post #149

I am not in the bay area, in fact I've never even been to the West Coast. So I am going to ask what may seem like a stupid question to some of you. I mean this in as polite a way as possible, but why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just fuck off to another city entirely? It's a successful company with a great product - that I'm sure many people would like to work for. They could surely lure talent from the…

In most companies people who are in positions to make this decision have houses in the Bay Area and have a good life set up. They are not keen to upset all of that.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#162

Post by mc32 »

kasey_junk wrote: post #151
dawg- wrote: post #149

I am not in the bay area, in fact I've never even been to the West Coast. So I am going to ask what may seem like a stupid question to some of you. I mean this in as polite a way as possible, but why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just fuck off to another city entirely? It's a successful company with a great product - that I'm sure many people would like to work for. They could surely lure talent from the…

Stripe has offices in lots of places. But they also have their existing employees in San Francisco. Fucking off to another city is functionally equivalent to laying off half the company.

Boeing moved, many companies based in NYC moved out of the city in the 80s, 90s. It’s not extremely hard, but it is disruptive. When the exodus happens it’ll start as a trickle and by the time people take notice half the cos will have reduced occupancy.

After certain stage it’s more about managing growth than about R&D, so you can find most of the talent you need in alternate markets.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#163

Post by mbesto »

dawg- wrote: post #149

I am not in the bay area, in fact I've never even been to the West Coast. So I am going to ask what may seem like a stupid question to some of you. I mean this in as polite a way as possible, but why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just fuck off to another city entirely? It's a successful company with a great product - that I'm sure many people would like to work for. They could surely lure talent from the…

> bay area by moving to a lower cost of living area where mid-level employees can afford to buy an actual house relatively close to work?

Stripe is not hiring "mid-level" employees. Or at the very least that is not the type of people they are compensating to run critical roles.

Good luck telling a Senior Staff Engineer who makes $500k (plus probably a couple of million in RSUs) that they have to move to Albuquerque, NM.

The other reality is that people take jobs knowing that there are other jobs available if they themselves decide to "fuck right off".

TL;DR - Network effects exists in the physical world. Too many talented people live in the bay area for "quality of life".

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#164

Post by dominotw »

kevingadd wrote: post #146
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last year Stripe funded an anti-homeless campaign just $1 shy of the reporting threshold I don’t get the sense that San Francisco’s homeless problem can be solved by throwing dollars at it. San Francisco chooses high housing prices by restricting construction. Its NIMBYs block tackling its homelessness problem. Money won’t change those choices by San Francisco’s voters. It will just swell another city bureaucracy.

Both things can be true: NIMBYs are contributing to skyrocketing housing prices (and thus a growth in homelessness), AND essential city/county/state services require tax dollars. I can think of plenty of things that SF locals complain about when I talk to them that would be mitigated by more tax dollars spent by the appropriate agencies. If your argument is that SF local government is a black hole that spends 0% of i…

> NIMBYs are contributing to skyrocketing housing prices (and thus a growth in homelessness)

My impression was that the homeless there cannot afford a home at any price due to life circumstances.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#165

Post by gwbas1c »

dawg- wrote: post #149

I am not in the bay area, in fact I've never even been to the West Coast. So I am going to ask what may seem like a stupid question to some of you. I mean this in as polite a way as possible, but why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just fuck off to another city entirely? It's a successful company with a great product - that I'm sure many people would like to work for. They could surely lure talent from the…

I remember when Stripe emailed me as a job candidate. At the time, I was sitting in the bar directly behind their office, and basically replied that they (one of the Collison brothers) could come right now and have a beer with me. (I was sitting in the Rose and Crown, and they were in the office behind the Wine Room on the same block.) *

> why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just ... off to another city entirely?

Because the employees they want to hire live and work in Silicon Valley. There's a lot of advantages to the area: Good weather, good cultural actives, good jobs...

Keep in mind that companies loose people when they move within the same geographic area. (For example, someone commuting over the Golden Gate bridge might decide to leave because now the commute is much longer.)

* By the time I screened with them, I had a job offer in hand that I really wanted. (This was long before Stripe became successful.) I lived a few blocks away, so I asked to screen in person, and then decided to take the job with the other company. I don't even know if they would have hired me!

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#166

Post by giarc »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #23

I can tell you recruiting for South San Francisco was way harder than recruiting for SF. If I lived in SF without a car, that'd be a deal breaker for me. They're going to start losing people, or see a huge spike in chronic working from home. I guess they have to move somewhere at some point, and no move is without trade-offs. Regarding the gross receipts tax, couldn't they just move their HQ-on-paper to any place tha…

Google Maps tells me this is a 14 minute drive (old HQ to Oyster Point Park). 16-30 minutes if you want to arrive at 8am. Is that correct? Is that such a game changer? Do that many people not own vehicles or can't carpool to work?

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#167

Post by TuringNYC »

dawg- wrote: post #149

I am not in the bay area, in fact I've never even been to the West Coast. So I am going to ask what may seem like a stupid question to some of you. I mean this in as polite a way as possible, but why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just fuck off to another city entirely? It's a successful company with a great product - that I'm sure many people would like to work for. They could surely lure talent from the…

So many reasons:

- That effectively means those employees tied to the old location have to quit or be let go. Stripe isn't a public company, so that causes major issues for those with options who suddenly need to exercise into an expensive illiquid holding. For those w/o vested options in a company as successful as Stripe, you're leaving a lot of money on the table. What are the odds you find another Stripe with options deep in the money?

- If your spouse is working in SF, if you move, now they have to quit their job and look for another one. If your spouse works in a non-public tech startup, see point 1.

- Moving isn't easy in the US if you own a home - the taxes, fees, expenses, commissions, etc alone will cost you ~8 or 9% of your sale. If you have 20% down you just lost half your equity. Easier of course if you have more equity in the home, but still -- fees/etc are a total loss to you.

- If the company re-locates you, they might cover some of the home change expenses, but those are often capped. It becomes quite expensive to the company to re-lo folks with homes (see above)

- Changing homes (and thus school districts) is a big issue for employees with children. Many school districts are not guaranteed by home ownership / lease, but rather by tenure in the district. You end up buying/leasing an expensive property in a new area and busing your child to a far off, possibly much less performant, school.

- I totally agree with SF being epensive, but for other cities, moving to suburbs isn't that much less expensive for young workers. Now you suddenly have to buy a car, pay for gas, pay tolls, registrations, etc. Also, for those early career w/o children, being in a one-company-town suburb is a career-killer. There isnt an ecosystem and it becomes harder to switch jobs. I had an employer move their office from Manhattan to suburban Connecticut with the argument that is was less expensive (yes, less expensive for the company -- but absolutely not less expensive for the employee)

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#168

Post by jseliger »

dawg- wrote: post #149

I am not in the bay area, in fact I've never even been to the West Coast. So I am going to ask what may seem like a stupid question to some of you. I mean this in as polite a way as possible, but why wouldn't established companies like Stripe just fuck off to another city entirely? It's a successful company with a great product - that I'm sure many people would like to work for. They could surely lure talent from the…

Spillover effects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spillover_(economics)

Large metro areas are much more productive because people can learn from each other.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#169

Post by ghaff »

mc32 wrote: post #162
kasey_junk wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe has offices in lots of places. But they also have their existing employees in San Francisco. Fucking off to another city is functionally equivalent to laying off half the company.

Boeing moved, many companies based in NYC moved out of the city in the 80s, 90s. It’s not extremely hard, but it is disruptive. When the exodus happens it’ll start as a trickle and by the time people take notice half the cos will have reduced occupancy. After certain stage it’s more about managing growth than about R&D, so you can find most of the talent you need in alternate markets.

In all fairness, significant HQ moves often have a major cut in headcount as a well-understood side effect if not an actual motivation.

But, yes, companies can and have moved their HQs a lot more than ten miles. It's probably harder in an industry and at a time when more people figure a job with a given company is pretty ephemeral though.

Re: Stripe to move to South San Francisco

#170

Post by mc32 »

ghaff wrote: post #169
mc32 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boeing moved, many companies based in NYC moved out of the city in the 80s, 90s. It’s not extremely hard, but it is disruptive. When the exodus happens it’ll start as a trickle and by the time people take notice half the cos will have reduced occupancy. After certain stage it’s more about managing growth than about R&D, so you can find most of the talent you need in alternate markets.

In all fairness, significant HQ moves often have a major cut in headcount as a well-understood side effect if not an actual motivation. But, yes, companies can and have moved their HQs a lot more than ten miles. It's probably harder in an industry and at a time when more people figure a job with a given company is pretty ephemeral though.

Maybe but I think people will figure out the talent deserts have more oases than people think. There are more options for talent than just SV. Remember much of the US talent in SV come from other parts of the country. Many would stay local if given the opp to stay local. So instead of drawing talent to SV, SV could seek the talent in those markets (where talent is growing).
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