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Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

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Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#161

Post by JackFr »

traderjane wrote: post #111
ddiq wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racial profiling is just a slur for pattern recognition. If it turns out that 95% of Chinese scholars in the US are more loyal to China than to America, and that when given a chance, will illegally send information back to China, what are you supposed to do? It's fine if you don't want to have a racial bias yourself, but it doesn't mean you need to ignore the fact that (in this hypothetical) the vast majority of Chin…

If black Americans are more likely to commit local crimes and you are developing software for police to predict hotspots of crime, wouldn't race be another aspect of pattern recognition in this narrative? And would it be wrong for banks or loan programs to optimize on such pattern recognition if it were found that ethnicity could improve their forecasting? Or for software companies to forecast employee effectiveness…

Whether those things are wrong is a good question for the debating society.

What they are is illegal.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#162

Post by JackFr »

ddiq wrote: post #117
traderjane wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If black Americans are more likely to commit local crimes and you are developing software for police to predict hotspots of crime, wouldn't race be another aspect of pattern recognition in this narrative? And would it be wrong for banks or loan programs to optimize on such pattern recognition if it were found that ethnicity could improve their forecasting? Or for software companies to forecast employee effectiveness…

Do you want your system to be "nice" or do you want it do be effective?

When we use the coercive power of the state, it can only be with respect to the actions of an individual. Group punishments are completely unacceptable.

Quote Rev. Bayes till you're blue in the face, but profiling amounts to holding a group responsible for the actions of bad individuals.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#163

Post by nicoburns »

deogeo wrote: post #70
yourbandsucks wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a Chinese family goes from a 3rd-world life to a modern one, is that a relative loss for America? In sports, it would be. Yes, we should be firm about our interests. No, we shouldn't be obsessed with some 'score' -- or if we are, maybe channel it towards fixing our own house.

And if a Chinese airplane manufacturer out-competes a US one, causing it to fail, its workers go unemployed, weakening the US economy, and making it more dependent on China? How long does an average company last, if it gives away all its IP and know-how? Why should the result differ on the scale of countries? I assumed these dynamics are obvious to everyone.

> And if a Chinese airplane manufacturer out-competes a US one, causing it to fail, its workers go unemployed, weakening the US economy, and making it more dependent on China?

This won't happen, because despite the US's public insistence that free markets should be enforced everywhere, it is in fact quite protectionist over several of its industries, aerospace being one of them.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#164

Post by JackFr »

cocoggu wrote: post #106
ekianjo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. Resistance against the CCP is a very tiny minority since there is a heavy brainwashing about how great everything CCP does since kids go to school at a young age - and they never get any other version of reality.

Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese. It's not only about brainwashing. 40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was below the poverty line. Today it's between 10% and 15%. Under the party governance, almost everyone saw their life standards go up substantially. A lot of the people studying abroad saw their family starting from the bottom and they can now afford to study in wester…

And yet it is brainwashing that they believe the CCP is responsible for the bulk of the poverty reduction, rather than simply opening China to international trade. When one compares the postwar growth of Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan to that of China it might be more correct to say that rather than making them rich, the CCP stopped empoverishing the people.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#165

Post by piersadrian »

ddiq wrote: post #125
onion2k wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it to be effective, which is why racial profiling is a bad idea. Crime rates correlate to poverty rather than race. If you design your system to target race you'll get lots of false positives in middle class black neighbourhoods and you'll ignore crime in poor white neighbourhoods. Racial profiling doesn't work.

This is just not true. The percentage of blacks in a population is a higher correlate for crime than income, poverty, or any other economic factors. This has been replicated many times. edit: Here are some studies. I would have put them in a reply but I'm being rate limited. Any one is sufficient on its own, but all are interesting. http://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/ http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22…

This opinion is heavily biased toward a white-nationalist narrative. For instance, the second linked “study” is actually a propaganda piece published by the New Century Foundation, an organization described by its founder, Jared Taylor, as “white-separatist”.

HN is not the place for this.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#166

Post by ucha »

eastendguy wrote: post #145
ucha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China managed to quite quickly absorb the technology transfer from Alstom/Siemens to build high-speed trains. Now their trains are better than anyone else's and they have more high-speed rails than any other country. They even managed to beat competitors and export their trains to Turkey and Argentina... I have no doubt their airplane will ultimately be successful.

Are the trains better e. g. compared to TGV or Shinkansen? I doubt that. Or just cheaper? Sure, cheaper is also a form of "better". Please note that they forced the technology transfer from Siemens. That is one of the key issues with today's China.

They can go slightly faster with a top speed of 350km/h instead of 320km/h but one could argue that is marginal improvement.

What happened with Siemens is tragic because they wanted so hard to get a foothold in the Chinese market, they agreed to the technology transfer. In the long term, they helped start a competitor that now beats them in other foreign markets.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#167

Post by dragonwriter »

onion2k wrote: post #122
ddiq wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want your system to be "nice" or do you want it do be effective?

I want it to be effective, which is why racial profiling is a bad idea. Crime rates correlate to poverty rather than race. If you design your system to target race you'll get lots of false positives in middle class black neighbourhoods and you'll ignore crime in poor white neighbourhoods. Racial profiling doesn't work.

> Applying your intelligence effectively is what it's all about.

They actually do correlate to race, beyond that which income accounts for, but you'd kind of expect that if law enforcement was racist against blacks and was perceived as such: policing is less effective in black communities both because of police attitudes toward blacks and vice versa. (Racial profiling—literally law enforcement targeting people based on race—obviously exacerbates this.)

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#168

Post by CharlesColeman »

bcatanzaro wrote: post #102
freyr wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

//

Yup. Lots of sleight-of-hand in this claim. China does have a long history of invading other countries, but they try to suppress knowledge of it. That’s why they’re so hypersensitive about the definition of China, because they’re hiding their present and former invasions. Tibet, Xinjiang, Taiwan, all the islands inside the vague nine-dashed line... Even border disputes with India.

> China does have a long history of invading other countries, but they try to suppress knowledge of it.

China doesn't invade other countries, it just discovers inseparable parts of China.

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#169

Post by CharlesColeman »

GhettoMaestro wrote: post #41
president wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internment like in WW2? Probably not. Pretty sure the only viable way would be to enact laws to enforce extremely stringent eligibility requirements on foreign students/workers.

> Internment like in WW2? Probably not. I wasn't thinking in such drastically illegal terms to be candid... so: no. > Pretty sure the only viable way would be to enact laws to enforce extremely stringent eligibility requirements on foreign students/workers. I agree in principle. My thoughts are more along the lines of mass denials of any type of visa from [mainland] China for the purposes of study and/or work. If it…

> I agree in principle. My thoughts are more along the lines of mass denials of any type of visa from [mainland] China for the purposes of study and/or work. If it gets bad enough, total denial of all visas. (I don't feel a kinship with China that I do with Mexico/Latin-America and Canada.)

No, that's dumb.

The answer is to let the students in, maybe push them away from militarily sensitive areas of research, and improve the education they receive in the US to counter CCP propaganda narratives. If the later is done, maybe we can actually realize the hopes of someday liberalizing China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/01/world/asia/hong-kong-prot...

Re: Building China's Comac C919 airplane involved a lot of hacking, report says

#170

Post by FilterSweep »

ddiq wrote: post #125
onion2k wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want it to be effective, which is why racial profiling is a bad idea. Crime rates correlate to poverty rather than race. If you design your system to target race you'll get lots of false positives in middle class black neighbourhoods and you'll ignore crime in poor white neighbourhoods. Racial profiling doesn't work.

This is just not true. The percentage of blacks in a population is a higher correlate for crime than income, poverty, or any other economic factors. This has been replicated many times. edit: Here are some studies. I would have put them in a reply but I'm being rate limited. Any one is sufficient on its own, but all are interesting. http://www.unz.com/article/race-and-crime-in-america/ http://2kpcwh2r7phz1nq4jj237m22…

I miss when HN throwaways were used to serve as whistleblowers.

Not for spreading "The Bell Curve" 90s research and unsourced white nationalist propaganda.

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