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Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

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Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#161

Post by kungtotte »

dogma1138 wrote: post #157
4gotunameagain wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a car, and an expensive one. Very few people would base their decision only on the tax incentives.

I don’t think you realize how much cars cost in Norway the country has an effective tax rate on cars that is over 100%. A new Ford Focus with all taxes and fees will cost you around $50,000, the base model without fees alone starts at around $35,000 (320,000 NOK). That’s a $12-13K car in the US, a Tesla on the otherhand might cost you even lower than the US sticker price under some circumstances, especially on the of…

To contrast this with Sweden, another heavily taxed country, we bought a new Mazda 6 Wagon in 2016 and it cost us 313000 SEK (~289000 NOK), fully loaded with all the trimmings and an extra set of winter tyres on rims to boot.

Car prices in Norway are crazy high.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#162

Post by Dumblydorr »

xyzzyz wrote: post #153
Faark wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just that, ICE cars emit their shitty exhaust right where lots of people live. Things are generally more complex than breaking it down to a single CO2 number make it appear, and I'm a bit uneasy that recent trend.

Gasoline burns very cleanly in modern (that is, Compared to those two, though, coal power plants are dirty as hell, and I’d take equivalent amount of car emissions to generate the same power over coal any day.

I code at a hospital, which is in a poor neighborhood. The garbage exhaust on my walk in to work from cheap old cars is unbelievable, to say nothing of 18 wheelers and huge trucks rolling through this poor neighboring neighborhood all day. Kids living there are straight up taking lung and brain damage from that exhaust. So it does grind my gears when people talk about coal EVs being dirtier, they just dont think of poor minority kids who bear the brunt of local city emissions of dirty ICE and diesel.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#163

Post by Dumblydorr »

TicklishTiger wrote: post #7

The one thing I really can not get over with Tesla is the dashboard. That giant screen that looks so misplaced. Cars always used to be the pinnacle of thought out design. And Tesla is supposed to be catering the more stylish crowd I think. I wonder how they decided to place a standard screen to the right of the driver. It will be interesting to see if other car manufacturers will adopt this design decision. Then it w…

That's like, your opinion, man. I think the only way Tesla could improve their design is a few more buttons. Other than that, I love love the design, sleek and minimal is 100% my style.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#164

Post by reitzensteinm »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #151
reitzensteinm wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you add load to a grid that's in the process of decarbonizing, you need to look at the marginal impact. Taking the average energy mix is bad math, because you're delaying the shutdown of the dirtiest sources. This can get more complicated if you have excess renewable energy generation at times, where the use is essentially free. Not to mention demand dispatch to smooth intermittent renewables. I'm a big EV fan,…

If you look at marginal impact then BEVs have no emissions, because generating capacity is primarily growing in the renewable energy segment. In fact there is an even bigger benefits to BEVs: New BEVs are being made to allow sending current the opposite direction. Hence the BEV fleet can be used as a large battery for storing renewable in times of overproduction and selling it back when it is needed. In other words a…

> If you look at marginal impact then BEVs have no emissions, because generating capacity is primarily growing in the renewable energy segment.

This is simply not true. You are tying them together incorrectly. BEVs cause growth in electricity demand, which keeps carbon sources around for longer. Renewable growth displaces carbon sources. The sum may be in the right direction, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't go faster if electricity consumption were lowered.

It's also a bit beside the point, as BEVs are more environmentally friendly even when powered by coal plants. My argument is not at all anti BEV or pro ICE.

> In other words adopting renewable energy REQUIRES BEVs.

Yes, when renewables hit a point where you can't build more for reliability concerns, BEVs performing demand dispatch and even V2G will provide a ton of storage. This is the biggest reason I'm a BEV fan (although PHEVs can also provide much the same role), as dual use of batteries is the only real way to get remotely the storage we're going to need.

But my point is that BEVs, while better than an ICE, shouldn't be thought of as equivalently clean to riding or taking public transport. This isn't a radical position, it's math.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#165

Post by charlesdm »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #145

Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly. Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo, I may see 6-7 Tesla's on that short walk. I only realize how abnormal that is when it is when I travel abroad. Spent several days in London and didn't see a single Tesla. Spent a week in Spain and didn't even see an electric car at all. In Norway there are Leaf…

In all honesty, it only sells well because of the tax benefits. Do the actual math and then figure out how many people would then buy and use it. Likely not a lot.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#166

Post by [deleted] »

hnarn wrote: post #28
buboard wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds a bit like they are solving rich people's problems

Solving EV problems is a hard equal to solving rich people problems as long as EV:s aren't affordable, but hopefully they will be in a near future, and hopefully our consumer patterns in general will also change by that point to ease the transition into an economy less dependent on fossil fuel.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#167

Post by alkonaut »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #155
xyzzyz wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s no surprise, since Norwegian government heavily penalizes ICE vehicles, and advantages the electric cars. No VAT, no CO2 tax, and lots of other incentives are involved. If your goal is to upgrade your country’s vehicle fleet to electric, then Norway is a good example that with enough government spending it can happen. Don’t mistake it for “normal people jumping onboard electric train”, though, they are jumping…

It's a car, and an expensive one. Very few people would base their decision only on the tax incentives.

In Norway every single person buying a new car makes the decision based on tax incentives to a large extent.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#168

Post by danans »

buboard wrote: post #20
Yuval_Halevi wrote: post #10

As someone who lived in Amsterdam for one year (I'm originally from Israel) I was extremely impressed by how the government create a solid infrastructure for electric car owners to charge their car batteries.

That sounds a bit like they are solving rich people's problems

I offer these 3 words: Used Chevy Volt

There are a lot of them on the market now sub 20K and they are effectively EVs in most use cases.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#169

Post by justapassenger »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #145

Tesla is almost 25% of the sales in Norway. Counting Tesla's on the road has started to become a bit silly. Just walking up to my local grocery story in Oslo, I may see 6-7 Tesla's on that short walk. I only realize how abnormal that is when it is when I travel abroad. Spent several days in London and didn't see a single Tesla. Spent a week in Spain and didn't even see an electric car at all. In Norway there are Leaf…

Having someone else to pay for a large part of your purchase is a very powerful initiative.

Re: Tesla Model 3 represented over 15% of September new car sales in The Netherlands

#170

Post by Maarten88 »

Fronzie wrote: post #46
vinay427 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, how does this work? I imagine the government isn't in the business of operating charging stations, so it is some combination of subsidies and regulatory easing, or something more? Do they benefit Tesla Superchargers or have other EV charging standards capitalized on it as well?

The country works together with private business to promote the charging stations. The country office provides an overview of where they are, but the ownership of the stations is private. Details (in dutch) https://www.eindhoven.nl/stad-en-wonen/stad/parkeren/oplaadp... An overview, together with if they're currently occupied: https://oplaadpalen.nl/

Since we are on Hacker News, let me promote the startup that built this and provides the realtime chargepoint data: Eco-Movement[1]. They have expanded out of the Netherlands and now provide this data europe-wide[2].

I think this is a good illustration how forward thinking government policies (incentivise electric car use) can drive new business in a country or state.

[1] https://www.eco-movement.com

[2] https://chargepointsmap.eu

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