Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#161

Post by theK » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:17 AM UTC

dvdbloc wrote: post #160

goatinaboat wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it'll be a success Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them. One or two stories like that will kill Libra stone dead. If Libra ignored these rules, they'll put these guys (or at least a part of their offerings) out of business This is called money laundering, people go to jail for it.

It’s all speculation but I wouldn’t be so sure about some negative press killing Libra. Thinking of another large platform where an algorithm determined a driver safe and then they perform a sexual assault on one of their passengers, it gets tons of press, still has millions of users... Example: https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/30/technology/uber-driver-sexu...

Very correct, bad results or user experience would unfortunately not have any effect if it is not a systemic problem that the great mass of users experiences. Google services also are still successful and used by billions even though google has a track record of terminating accounts at random...

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#162

Post by goatinaboat » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:19 AM UTC

jameslevy wrote: post #30

vertex-four wrote: post #20

If Facebook attempts to become a money transfer service or bank without the required licensing, they will have their offices raided and their doors locked on them. This is something Governments don't tend to mess around with.

My understanding is that they are limiting the relationship between Facebook as a corporate entity and Libra, at least on paper. Whether regulators treat it this way is another matter. But FB must be spending a lot on lobbying, and that should help them avoid any major surprises regarding enforcement actions.

they are limiting the relationship between Facebook as a corporate entity and Libra, at least on paper.

On paper, by insistence of the regulators, as a condition of acquiring it, there is a limit on their relationships with Instagram too...

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#163

Post by lowracle » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:19 AM UTC

It is now pretty clear that those financial institution joined Libra only because they saw it as a threatening competitor in the space. Now that they think that the project is unlikely to be implemented due to strong opposition from govt, they are leaving. I believe they are doing a big mistake, and that Libra will still be successful.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#164

Post by louhike » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:20 AM UTC

dvdbloc wrote: post #160

goatinaboat wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it'll be a success Imagine being unable to buy food because an algorithm determined that “you violated our community standards” and there’s no way to contact them. One or two stories like that will kill Libra stone dead. If Libra ignored these rules, they'll put these guys (or at least a part of their offerings) out of business This is called money laundering, people go to jail for it.

It’s all speculation but I wouldn’t be so sure about some negative press killing Libra. Thinking of another large platform where an algorithm determined a driver safe and then they perform a sexual assault on one of their passengers, it gets tons of press, still has millions of users... Example: https://money.cnn.com/2018/04/30/technology/uber-driver-sexu...

You're comparing oranges to apples here. I really don't see how Facebook potentially refusing access to their platforms for obscures reasons can be compared to an employee of a platform committing sexual assault.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#165

Post by krn » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:26 AM UTC

seanhunter wrote: post #137

krn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't Facebook just get something like the UK's Electronic Money license? That's how TransferWise operates without being a bank.

You don't "just get" an emoney license. When you apply for the license you sign up to a bunch of regulatory scrutiny most of which seems to be antithetical to this kind of project.[1] The UK financial regulators are not dumb and have thought this through. [1] Specifically here are details of the emoney regulations if you're interested https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/electronic-money-payment-instit...

> The UK financial regulators are not dumb and have thought this through.

The UK financial regulators have already given the Electronic Money license to at least three crypto companies[1].

[1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/uk-watchdog-grants-third-e-mo...

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#166

Post by jbverschoor » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:33 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #97

oceanplexian wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure Crypto backed by a particular company might not happen, but I don’t see BTC and similar P2P blockchain currencies going anywhere. It’s about as easy to stop as digital piracy, which is to say in other words physically impossible to regulate.

Corroborating ineedausername, Wikileaks seemed like they were unstoppable defying governments and all. Then, they said they were about to humiliate one of the U.S.'s most powerful banks. Then, Mastercard, Visa, and Paypal cut off all donations to them. Then, Wikileaks started dying off. The government and card networks might do something similar. They could get SWIFT in on it, too, since they cooperate with governmen…

In short, governments are the real crooks.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#167

Post by jbverschoor » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:37 AM UTC

vertex-four wrote: post #27

krn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't Facebook just get something like the UK's Electronic Money license? That's how TransferWise operates without being a bank.

Even if the regulators let them get away with that, nobody in Europe is particularly in need of a cryptocurrency for moving money around Europe, we have near-instant money transfers for free (or close to it) through our banks. I guess they could go for the remittances market, but that's really not where I see Facebook wanting to go.

Try opening a corporate bank account these days. Will take you 6-12 months easily

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#168

Post by jbverschoor » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

seanhunter wrote: post #137

krn wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't Facebook just get something like the UK's Electronic Money license? That's how TransferWise operates without being a bank.

You don't "just get" an emoney license. When you apply for the license you sign up to a bunch of regulatory scrutiny most of which seems to be antithetical to this kind of project.[1] The UK financial regulators are not dumb and have thought this through. [1] Specifically here are details of the emoney regulations if you're interested https://www.fca.org.uk/firms/electronic-money-payment-instit...

Fud

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#169

Post by speedplane » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

jbverschoor wrote: post #167

vertex-four wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the regulators let them get away with that, nobody in Europe is particularly in need of a cryptocurrency for moving money around Europe, we have near-instant money transfers for free (or close to it) through our banks. I guess they could go for the remittances market, but that's really not where I see Facebook wanting to go.

Try opening a corporate bank account these days. Will take you 6-12 months easily

I opened one about 2 years ago and don’t think it took more than a few days (it was annoying though, several visits to bank branches to ink sign documents). Did something change since then?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#170

Post by kybernetikos » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 8:41 AM UTC

elyobo wrote: post #135

ineedasername wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google are still dealing with merchant fees. So is PayPal for many transactions. A PayPal style system might work, but it is only low-cost low-friction (the main appeal for crypto) for the transactions that occur completely within it's own ecosystem. And they don't call it a currency, so they dodge some issues there. Paypal also dodges issues of "being a bank" because funds equivalent to customer balances a…

Crypto seems like it's (at the moment) neither low cost nor low friction; did I misunderstand you?

Trasferring or requesting lumens on keybase is incredibly easy and very cheap. Turning the lumens into fiat and vice versa isn't so easy at present.

Actually, it's obvious to me that this is the future - we want to share money in the same way and with the same ease we share thoughts and images ie inside chat systems and on social media. You don't need crypto to do this, but it's the best way of making a system anyone can join and trust.

Libra is going to be big unless it's artificially stopped, and that's my view, even as someone who would much rather see one of the current cryptocurrency systems win rather than a new Facebook invented thing.

If we hadn't ceded chat and social media to walled Gardens we would have solved this years ago.