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Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

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Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#161

Post by hrktb »

GordonS wrote: post #156
hrktb wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This device’s whole point would be outside of the “we” point of view. In general “we” don’t need a revolution of the current form factor. A sizeable portion of users have stopped upgrading and wait for their current phone to be dead, some are already clamoring for less, going back to iPhoneSE like phones. I think the duo is not targeting the “we”, but way more specific user niches who have non generic goals and are n…

OK, but what is that niche? I'm not happy with today's massive phones, but that doesn't mean I want a massive phone that can fold in half! I just want a non-slippy phone that fits in my hand and pocket, and has a high-res screen. Truely, I don't understand the trend for slippy phones that keep getting bigger and bigger :/

I would guess one niche is people that wanted the 7 inches tablets and ipad mini to succeed more. They opted for cellular models, and would have prefered to be able to message and take calls there, getting rid of their phone altogether (that’s one less device to care about).

Another niche is people who used their phone mostly as a notification device, but switched to the watch for that, and now are frustrated by the tininess of the phone as they use it more and more for “serious” business only.

I am not in any of these niches, but also feel that I am happy with a smaller phone only because I need to pocket it. If I was using a purse everywhere I’d want the biggest thing I can get away with.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#162

Post by WorldMaker »

Faark wrote: post #158
WorldMaker wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't even "the market" that spoke so much as US telecom companies. ("Vote with your wallet just means the rich and the mega-corporations have more votes.") Windows Phone had a good enough market share in Europe and Asia to remain a viable and competitive third place contender for a long time. It was the US where Windows Phone got locked out of the market duopoly by bad deals with AT&T and Verizon, and indication…

What you are describing is the usual problem of establishing a two sided market. You need users to make app developers care. You need apps to get users in the first place. From what I remember, MS already had to build some apps themselves / offer significant financial incentives [0]. This seemed hardly sustainable and thus the death of the product was, while disappointing, not a surprise. So yeah, you don't need a co…

You can't get users for a product no one can buy. Calling it a conspiracy was largely a gag, but if anything it was a conspiracy of dunces.

Verizon refusing to sell and refusing to allow on their network the Lumia 950 because of a hissy fit that they didn't like how the previous flagship performed and that Microsoft got an almost favorable AT&T deal for the 950 was dumb on several levels.

AT&T getting bored with their 950 deal and then refusing to advertise/market/sell the phone, was certainly a death nail, partly because it was so much easier and cheaper to just micro-manage the Android platform.

It might not have killed the platform in the US if there were more than one phone manufacturer in Windows Phone at that point in time.

(That calls into question if the Nokia buy out was the right move. Which with Nokia last one standing already, it was probably the only move, but the platform had enough market share before Nokia was at risk of tanking that had a couple Android manufacturers gotten fed up with Google at the time things could have gone differently. Though admittedly, armchair quarterbacking is easier with hindsight.)

The app situation was always something that could have been addressed if people were (capable of) buying the platform. The lack of OEM manufacturers and the lack of support/interest from the carriers certainly mattered more than apps at crashing marketshare of the platform below the critical threshold for active application development.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#163

Post by Marsymars »

m0zg wrote: post #118
acd wrote: post #113

Microsoft has always been very good at making hardware! It would be interesting with oled/lcd on one side and eink on the other side.

This is often said by people who have never owned their hardware. I bought a Surface Book when it first came out. I disagree. It looks good on the photos if you've never used it, but it was kind of flimsy and buggy AF. I took it back for a refund 3 days after purchasing it. And it's a flagship device. I can only imagine what happens at the lower end of the product range.

> And it's a flagship device. I can only imagine what happens at the lower end of the product range.

I wouldn't really expect any difference. It's not like Apple's lower end products are buggier than their higher end ones.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#164

Post by [deleted] »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #146
untog wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Certainly there are many ways you could talk to someone about a menu: what kinds of dishes are there? Appetizers, grilled entrees, pasta, salads, desserts. What kind of entrees? Vegetarian, pork, beef, seafood. OK, but what styles of cuisine? Jamaican, Italian, Szechuan. There's probably an analog to the 5 Why's for figuring out what someone wants to eat! To me this is the core of why voice interfaces will always b…

Have you ever watched a person with vision challenges using VoiceOver with the speed cranked up? I bet they could absorb the info they need to know about a menu before the average reader could, even before any hierarchical organization is exposed to the text-to-speech process. The visual hierarchical and keyword navigation you describe is just what I'm talking about with a voice interface, too. Just yesterday a colle…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#165

Post by blackoil »

mwsfc wrote: post #77

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook (form factor) era* void. We're past peak smartphone development and are in this space where manufacturers are stumbling around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my…

In developing countries, phone is the only computing device most people have and is the primary consumption device taking over TV. So a bigger screen will definitely be valued.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#167

Post by megaremote »

mwsfc wrote: post #77

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook (form factor) era* void. We're past peak smartphone development and are in this space where manufacturers are stumbling around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my…

> around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary.

I hate people who talk like this, as if there is something magical that people should be working on.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#168

Post by cltsang »

megaremote wrote: post #167
mwsfc wrote: post #77

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook (form factor) era* void. We're past peak smartphone development and are in this space where manufacturers are stumbling around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my…

> around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. I hate people who talk like this, as if there is something magical that people should be working on.

Hate is a strong word.

But I agree that innovation is often incremental efforts of exploration and convergence, like how we got to where we are in VR today. Magical phenomenal change like iPhone is rather exceptional.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#169

Post by EnderMB »

WorldMaker wrote: post #95
EnderMB wrote: post #18

I really hope that we see a single-screen Surface phone in the future. IMO, Microsoft have done a fantastic job with the Surface Book. If they could replicate that high-end build quality while providing a solid feature set and a clean Android build, I can't see it not selling well. Throw a headphone jack in, and I'd wait in line for it! The dual screen is interesting, but I don't see its use just yet.

Why would they make a single-screen phone for Android when the market is already saturated with them? (It's silly enough for them to make a dual screen phone for Android when all the existing OEMs are already trying to hype future foldables or multi-screen beasts.)

I wouldn't call the high-end Android market saturated. There are a number of players, but it's a market of compromises. If you want a stock Android experience, you go away from Samsung. If you want a headphone jack, you go away from Google and OnePlus, etc.

The Surface range is good because it packs so much functionality into a nicely designed package. The same design principles, with a full feature set, would sell like wild-fire, and would put a lot of other phone manufacturers on notice.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#170

Post by EnderMB »

pizza234 wrote: post #44
bhauer wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Surface Laptop 3 looks very compelling though, especially with the Ryzen option.

The Surface Laptop unfortunately doesn't work as tablet. I'm very "disappointented" by the event, as it seems that the Surface Book series is dead. If this is the case, I guess that the reasoning has been that who want a powerful machine just buy a regular laptop. It's a shame for those who use the SB both as tablet and dev machine (which is the intended audience). At this point, it's not sure how the SPX will be usa…

I'm interested in how many people actually use their Surface Book as a tablet.

I know a load of people with the standard Surface that use it like a tablet, but very few people that regularly use their Surface Book's detachable tablet functionality. I can probably count the number of times I've ever wanted to take the laptop apart on one hand.

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