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Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

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Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#161
post #86
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of games "for girls" (the hidden-object and life-simulation genres are almost exclusively consumed by women, regardless of theming) but they're not marketed with quite the high-budget superbowl ad-campaign effort that games "for boys" are. I've encountered the situation many times where I'll find out one of my female friends doesn't play video games. I'll ask why, and—disregarding the people who just…

Would 'escape room' and/or puzzle-room games (maybe more like the Myst genera) be under the Hidden Object umbrella, or possible a "puzzle environment" genera? Also, IMO, Puzzle Environment is (hopefully) non-gendered, but I've never seen stats for it.

The problem is hoping for reality to be a certain way rather than evaluating the evidence and seeing where it leads. Maybe you hope to change it to be non-biased in the future? In any complicated trait that's a complex interaction of nature and nurture, it's unlikely that all of the forces would be balanced perfectly for there to be no difference between groups.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#162

IMHO a big part of "controversy" surrounding the idea of purely biological male vs. female predispositions comes from people not really understanding how statistics work. People feel that results like this are somehow limiting to them individually so they argue emotionally against it, but statistics don't really deal with the individual outcomes. Statistical researches are never about you, me or any single individual…

And yet...

I've read this[1] yesterday on a complete unrelated topic, and I must say that "I don't buy" it's another form of not understanding statistics.

Biology is what it is and controls major aspects of our lives.

If you can be stronger of some of the biological instincts, good, but statistically biology always wins.

We can say for example that "women prefer laudanum, men prefer opium and pronstitues" is 100% a social construction.

"Women are better at social activities while men are better at competitive activities" much less so.

> Like most psychologists who study personality, Peterson believes there are five core personality traits—extraversion, agreeableness, openness, conscientiousness and neuroticism—and that these traits are universal across most cultures. The taxonomy is also gendered. For example, women tend to be more agreeable than men. The traits have both biological and cultural origins and, as Peterson is fond of saying, the biological factors maximize in places—like Scandinavia—that have strenuously tried to flatten out the cultural differences. Biology is, therefore, in a sense, destiny, no matter how much people may want to deny it. To his mind, arguing that gender is a social construct or a kind of performance or—as the Ontario Human Rights Code says—an individual’s subjective experience is just wrong. “It’s not an alternative hypothesis,” Peterson says. “It’s an incorrect hypothesis.

-- Jordan Bernt Peterson is a Canadian clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto.

[1] https://torontolife.com/city/u-t-professor-sparked-vicious-b...

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#163

IMHO a big part of "controversy" surrounding the idea of purely biological male vs. female predispositions comes from people not really understanding how statistics work. People feel that results like this are somehow limiting to them individually so they argue emotionally against it, but statistics don't really deal with the individual outcomes. Statistical researches are never about you, me or any single individual…

And yet... I've read this[1] yesterday on a complete unrelated topic, and I must say that "I don't buy" it's another form of not understanding statistics. Biology is what it is and controls major aspects of our lives. If you can be stronger of some of the biological instincts, good, but statistically biology always wins. We can say for example that "women prefer laudanum, men prefer opium and pronstitues" is 100% a s…

Please don't use JP as a reliable source. He is extremely subjective and pushes many ideologies in his "non fiction" takes.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#164

Imagine if this headline read "Research on drunks' preference for aggressiveness and sobers' for politeness". Would anyone argue that nurture and societal norms is the reason drunks behave more aggressively ? As someone who has been drunk on testosterone most of their life, I can testify it is a powerful and fun drug. Perhaps if research was framed in terms of hormonal differences rather than sex differences it would…

> hormonal differences rather than sex differences it wouldn't be as intrinsically controversial.

it is controversial only if you assume that

- we can control sex differences more than hormonal differences (in fact it's quite the opposite)

- cultural differences are more controllable than biological differences (same as above)

it doesn't matter how you frame it, the study shows a clear tendency, we can discuss the implications or the correctness of the study, methodology and title

For the first a functioning brain it's enough, for the rest we are subject to burden of the proof.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#165

IMHO a big part of "controversy" surrounding the idea of purely biological male vs. female predispositions comes from people not really understanding how statistics work. People feel that results like this are somehow limiting to them individually so they argue emotionally against it, but statistics don't really deal with the individual outcomes. Statistical researches are never about you, me or any single individual…

Steven Pinkers the "blank slate" deals with this question in depth. From what I recall is that genes do determine a lot. Evidence for this are studies with twins that grow up separate. The crux however is that only because genes shape a lot of your behavior, that dosent mean they force you. You are not a marionette of you genes, you still have free will. There was also an interesting study where the correlation in behavior between parents and children weakens the older the children become. Meaning there is almost no nurture influence left if your 30. There was a lot more interesting stuff in the book but I dont remember it. I really recommend it though.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet... I've read this[1] yesterday on a complete unrelated topic, and I must say that "I don't buy" it's another form of not understanding statistics. Biology is what it is and controls major aspects of our lives. If you can be stronger of some of the biological instincts, good, but statistically biology always wins. We can say for example that "women prefer laudanum, men prefer opium and pronstitues" is 100% a s…

Please don't use JP as a reliable source. He is extremely subjective and pushes many ideologies in his "non fiction" takes.

I know little about him personally, and I shouldn't have quoted the last bit, because it wasn't related to what we're talking here.

The point is sex differences exist and are framed in a way that culture or nature have really no meaning anymore.

They are both hard to change and even if we change them in a meaningful way, we can't be sure it will fix what we think needs fixing.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

> yet also ensure that girls and women will not avoid mathematics more than boys and men due to mathematics anxiety. Policies must take into consideration that sex differences in career choices are not a simple function of gender equality and equal opportunities; and that, paradoxically, other factors (e.g., sex differences in occupational interests [74–76] and sex differences in other skills [9, 81, 82]) emerge in highly developed, gender-equal countries that might disproportionately affect girls’ mathematics anxiety and participation in STEM.

It doesn't mean of course that one sex is intrinsically better than the other, but the fact that we as individuals have not really existed for thousands of years and our choices in life have always been a cat and mouse game between rules of society and biological instincts, makes the distinction harder to make.

Our DNA tells us what we are biologically, but that's only the bootstrap process, what we become is mostly about the experiences we live and even in the flattest possible ideal society, where every choice is possible, we will all live different experiences and become different individuals.

And we would not see a perfect random distribution of choices, but very clear patterns or clusters, much more clear than they are now.

EDIT: sorry for being verbose.

Another example I can make is universal welfare state in Italy.

It was supposed to help families raise kids with less effort than the previous generations.

The unwanted (I hope) effect has been that it shaped a society of full time men workers and part-time or no-working women.

Because one way or another kids needed to be with their moms more than with their dads, we're talking about 60s in Italy here and a salary or a salary and half were enough. More money meant bigger dreams, moving to the city, in shiny new houses, but away from families that had been the buffer that allowed women to go to work while grandparents took care of kids.

It meant hiring a nanny, but why hire a nanny that costed as much as the woman's salary, when she could stay home, save on money and raise the kids?

This way men monopolized the higher paid jobs and women dominated education and services, because it was more flexible on hours.

It was good nonetheless, my parents couldn't have raised two kids without the free nursery school that the public hospital offered to their employees (having to kids when you work 12 hours night shifts is not really possible without help), but that's how a system created to support natality and to make it possible for women to go to work, have become the disaster of inequalities that it is now.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#167

IMHO a big part of "controversy" surrounding the idea of purely biological male vs. female predispositions comes from people not really understanding how statistics work. People feel that results like this are somehow limiting to them individually so they argue emotionally against it, but statistics don't really deal with the individual outcomes. Statistical researches are never about you, me or any single individual…

And yet... I've read this[1] yesterday on a complete unrelated topic, and I must say that "I don't buy" it's another form of not understanding statistics. Biology is what it is and controls major aspects of our lives. If you can be stronger of some of the biological instincts, good, but statistically biology always wins. We can say for example that "women prefer laudanum, men prefer opium and pronstitues" is 100% a s…

Peterson is a particularly problematic source because he usually doesn't correctly declare where the science stops and his personal musings start.

The Big Five in your quote are a perfect example: They have a significant heritable component, but for all factors heritability ranges from 40 to 60%, meaning 60% to 40% are explained by environment.[0] Yet when listening to Peterson somehow the environmental factor doesn't seem to matter at all, which is clearly in contrast to the current state of research.

[0] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/neu.10160

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in communities. For ease, people lump things such as social media and gaming in with "addiction". I'm sure 100 years from now in many cases the "social media addicts" will have a subset that leans toward success beyond their local community, and the gamers have a longer life expectancy than many in their community. I'd rather my kid game than go outside even in our middle-class neighborhood. I'd rather hav…

You're arguing gamers would have a longer life expectancy than others, and that you'd rather have your child game than go outside. Do you disagree with the widely accepted fact that exercise is beneficial to health, and thus a longer life?

And not just physical health, but also mental health, which is a massive factor in many aspects of life.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet... I've read this[1] yesterday on a complete unrelated topic, and I must say that "I don't buy" it's another form of not understanding statistics. Biology is what it is and controls major aspects of our lives. If you can be stronger of some of the biological instincts, good, but statistically biology always wins. We can say for example that "women prefer laudanum, men prefer opium and pronstitues" is 100% a s…

Please don't use JP as a reliable source. He is extremely subjective and pushes many ideologies in his "non fiction" takes.

I don't see it that way.

Re: Brain research on boys’ preference for video games and girls’ for social media

#170

All of the games I played as a kid were clearly designed for boys and young men (featuring all of the typical things like guns and heavy machinery that men are well known to like more than women). That's just how the market was. If it's like that today, then it is no wonder that boys exhibit signs of enjoying video games more.

Guns and heavy machinery are not topics for boys. Its just that those things are pushed on boys more while they are growing up. My sisters main game right now is counter strike. I saw an interesting video last year where they used toddlers young enough to have no visible gender and they got in babysitters to help the toddlers play with toys. They gave the toddlers random gendered names and clothes. They then asked th…

I'd offer the counter example of other infant primates expressing gender preferences for toys.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-pr...

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