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Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

theguardian.com

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Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#161

Post by mhandley »

Symbiote wrote: post #58
Scoundreller wrote: post #23

Guardian reports: > Dozens of charter planes have been brought in from as far afield as Malaysia to assist with the mass airlift. Getting a charter plane has been quite difficult since the 737MAX grounding. Any excess capacity has been soaked up. There have been lots of unusual chartering by airlines that don’t usually charter. Air Canada had been using some, and it’s exceptionally rare for them to not use AC-branded…

On the other hand, there are presumably now about 50 fairly new Airbus aircraft for sale, mostly A320 or similar, plus some Boeing ones. (Various sources give different numbers for the fleet size.)

Almost all of their aircraft are leased, not actually owned by them. In the short term, they'll probably be impounded by the airports they're currently at, pending payment of landing fees.

https://www.planespotters.net/airline/Thomas-Cook-Airlines

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#162

Post by tomatocracy »

greglindahl wrote: post #24
stupendousyappi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exchange rate decline was likely the biggest Brexit-related factor.

... they should have hedged it for the packages people had actually purchased. That's what currency hedges are for. Prices going up do decrease sales, of course.

They may well have hedged, I don’t think it’s clear. But I would point out the limits of hedging here - they’d have needed either collateral or someone to offer them credit terms on hedging to do that, neither of which were easily available to them.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#163

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

roddux wrote: post #140
sprafa wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most British companies I’ve seen operating appear to be an absolute mess from the inside. It’s funny that the British have the Northern European credibility in business but I don’t think they’re anywhere close as efficient or organised as the Germans or the Dutch. This is just personal experience but I’ve come to realise it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible.

> it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible What an incredibly spurious, over-generalised anecdote.

> What an incredibly spurious, over-generalised anecdote.

Could be. I'd like to hear what evidence, beyond this one news story, informs the OP's generalization.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#164

Post by tomatocracy »

futhey wrote: post #51
andrewstuart wrote: post #2

Is this brexit related?

Exchange rates and access to credit may be in some part Brexit related, but not enough to have on its own altered the outcome.

Exchange rates I don’t disagree with but access to credit in general is as good or better now for UK companies than in 2016.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#165

Post by tag2 »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #134
rwmj wrote: post #75

I guess as they've gone bust I can tell this story now ... I used to consult for Thomas Cook about 15 years ago, and they were a basketcase of a company even back them, so this doesn't surprise me. I feel sorry for all the reps and workers out in the field and on the planes who will lose their jobs because of the profligacy of the Peterborough head office. Two examples of stupidity stick with me. One was that at the…

As one who specialises in enterprise SEO. That is still an issue with many businesses, websites are still seen as just an electronic version of a poster on a bill board, its gradually changing. And Eu companies are even worse, a few years back I suggested a link from a German parents website to the uk subsidiary and was told the Head office lawyers where checking to see if they "where allowed" to add a link.

Though I'd read a pretty good write up of their AdWords tactics recently and learned a fair bit: https://marketingexamples.com/seo/step-by-step-keyword-resea...

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#166

Post by exergy »

roddux wrote: post #140
sprafa wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most British companies I’ve seen operating appear to be an absolute mess from the inside. It’s funny that the British have the Northern European credibility in business but I don’t think they’re anywhere close as efficient or organised as the Germans or the Dutch. This is just personal experience but I’ve come to realise it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible.

> it seems to be the norm that British management is overall terrible What an incredibly spurious, over-generalised anecdote.

He did take pains to specify it was just his experience. And even the fragment you quoted tries to be diplomatic by saying "it _seems_ to be"

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#167

Post by TeMPOraL »

hnarn wrote: post #82
mhandley wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't hotels realise this is a reputation business? In the age of the Internet, no-one with access to TripAdvisor or Google will ever stay there again. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see the hotel change name in the next year, if they survive. But perhaps worse that that, a hotel behaving like this, and not being slapped down hard by the Tunisian authorities, will damage the entire Tunisian tourism industry, just as…

> Don't hotels realise this is a reputation business? I would say that the facts presented above answer that question for you.

Indeed. What reputation? A lot of tourists are shopping for price, the only reputation that matters is that of the booking site they use - the visitors want to trust that the site doesn't peddle total low-end garbage. Hotels are a commodity.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#168

Post by matwood »

benj111 wrote: post #61

Frankly I think its amazing that all these people can expect to be repatriated, relatively problem free, it's like a bank collapse, but you have to herd people. And the scale. Operation Market Garden only dropped 40,000 troops. D day only managed to land 150,000 on the first day.

The scale is larger, but figuring out how to move people around when an airline stops flying either through a strike or bankruptcy is not uncommon. As long as they can get people out of the vacation town and into a larger EU city, flights back to the UK become relatively easy.

Years ago I showed up a Croatian airport to head home after a few weeks vacation and during that time the Croatian airline (pilots I guess) had gone on strike. It was a bit hectic, but eventually we were put on an unbranded private jet to Frankfurt. From there getting back to the US was no big deal.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#169

Post by TeMPOraL »

buboard wrote: post #94
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #43

> Customers at a hotel in Tunisia reported being locked in by security guards as the hotel demanded extra money, fearing it would not be paid by Thomas Cook. This is quite bad behaviour from the hotel. Presumably their business relationship is with Thomas Cook, not the people on holidays? They went as far as grabbing people who jumped a wall in an attempt to get out! More details here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-4…

That's completely ridiculous behavior. If anything, they should lock them OUT of the hotel

It's the classic I've seen used in jokes and comic strips - entry is free; once you enter, you discover that leaving costs money.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#170

Post by chatmasta »

leokennis wrote: post #148
growlist wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy throw away comment to make but don't forget lots of honest people in Tunisia are trying to make a living out of tourism, and from a selfish point of view having been to Tunisia there is loads of good stuff to see.

My experience is based on Egypt tourism. I'm not saying the people themselves aren't honest (in their private lives) but once there's money on the line, all honesty and nicety is out of the window immediately Begging, intense heckling, not taking no for an answer, rudely pushing upsells, sowing FOD to make an extra buck...

This is the case in nearly every developing country. It’s the same in developed countries, except instead of haggling, the menu at the tourist restaurant just says £18 for a burger.

Personally I have no problem paying a tourist premium in developing countries. One could even argue that “westerners” have a moral obligation to pay more for the same service, in exchange for all the advantages afforded to us by the exchange rate.

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