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U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

reuters.com

161–170 of 319 posts

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah yes. the perfect centrist. if you aren't black vs white, why are you playing chess?

Aristotelian logic is flawed.

Only in some situations. In a lot of situations it works as intended. The crucial point is being able to distinguish when it applies and when it doesn't.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#162

Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. The drone didn’t make a decision and target the workers, the drone pilot targeted the workers, and whomever was standing behind them gave the order to launch the missle. The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

Imagine being the person (even if you had little personal autonomy in the matter) who pulled the trigger or pressed the button. Imagine finding out what you had done. Would it break you?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#163
post #78

This is how you create terrorists. What do you think the children and friends feelings towards the US will be from now on? People get radicalized for much less than that.

> This is how you create terrorists. Um no, you are wrong. _What USA does_ is terrorism. When you drop bombs on people out of nowhere, that's called terrorism. Sorry if you're an American but you've got some learning to do about the biggest terrorist organization in the world before calling others a terrorist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRbnPA3fd5U

Splitting hairs.

This is how the cycle of violence is perpetuated.

Better?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#164

Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. The drone didn’t make a decision and target the workers, the drone pilot targeted the workers, and whomever was standing behind them gave the order to launch the missle. The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

It doesn't work even in the movies. Last American movie I watched which featured a drone strike against civilians, involved an advanced AI that recommended not to proceed because of insufficient information, that got overruled by the president. The drone strike hit a wedding, which led to increase in attack on Americans, making the AI attempt to kill the president and most of the US government, following the "protect against all enemies, foreign and domestic" doctrine.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#166

Notice the wording - the drone targeted the workers. The drone didn’t make a decision and target the workers, the drone pilot targeted the workers, and whomever was standing behind them gave the order to launch the missle. The whole “I’m just doing what the computer said” defense only works in movies.

Imagine being the person (even if you had little personal autonomy in the matter) who pulled the trigger or pressed the button. Imagine finding out what you had done. Would it break you?

Probably not. Have you heard the rhetoric from some of our veterans and citizens. The victims were brown.

Most likely they went home, slept soundly, thinking it was a good day, god and country, etc.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that to some extent, they do. When my country was occupied by the Nazi Germany, people who fought back were called freedom fighters by us. They were called terrorists by the Nazis.

Sure, but I don't think that extent is useful for the purposes of this discussion. FWIW, you and I are likely from the same country.

My point being, one country's terrorist is another country's freedom fighter. There is some nuance here, but we're talking about somewhat random and indiscriminate murder of civilians who may or may not be connected to a military group in hopes people at large will stop supporting that group. There's a political agenda in there, and there's death of innocent civilians. There's strong element of fear too - I remember reading articles about drone strikes in Pakistan years ago, in which it was reported that the locals developed a fear of clear blue sky. A fear of good weather, because that's when drones come.

If one objects to calling it terrorism because they're really trying to hit the combatants only, and objects to calling it a war crime because technically there's no war with an internationally recognized nation state, then how should we call it?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#168
post #20
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d go with “secretary of defense guns down thirty civilians with a machine gun in Times Square”. Why these mass murderers are allowed to flourish in our society is a continuing source of dismay for me.

Because freedom and democracy. Wars of attrition for political purposes are nothing but state sponsored terror by another name. More than 16,000 dead and 30,000 injured. Talk about Afghan 9/11 ever year for the past 10 years probably 20 to 40 on which way you are counting. Who destabilized the country? Was it the Soviets or was it the Americans?

Both, what you mean is who keeps it instabil. But that's also not as simple as just looking at US drone strikes. Though they are a non small reason due to the mental trauma they caused in a lot of people in some regions, which IMHO is likely to caused more people to radicalize.

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#169
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question: if the motivation for this bombing was not political or ideological, what was it then?

It was an accident.

Sure, but what was the motivation for dropping the bombs if you say it was not political or ideological?

Re: U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in Afghanistan

#170
post #2

Now imagine “U.S. drone strike kills 30 pine nut farm workers in France” and feel the difference (which is non-existent). Then it goes on tv and reads the list of this morning’s evil men who must be stopped.

Now imagine “France knowingly harbors 911 terrorists.” “French leaders take credit for car bombing which kills 23 civilians.” There’s a historical reason for this discrepancy.

There is a historical reason for everything. Who attacked US in the first place? It is not even reachable from countries they ‘democratized’, except for caribbean guys.
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