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High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

sciencedaily.com

161–170 of 190 posts

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#161
As always, a reminder that correlation != causation. This shows an association between hormone levels and autism, which is suggestive. But keep in mind that there may be a confounding factor or factors (e.g. the same genes that control synapses that are dysfunctional in autism may be involved in hormonal regulation).

Biology is decidedly unlike good code - no modularity, many pleiotropic effects. Something more definitive would be examining pregnancies where oestrogens were artificially elevated, maybe by looking at women who were unknowingly pregnant but continued to take oestrogenic contraceptives.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#163
post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

> But would I change if I could go back in time and become normal is a question I have asked myself and the answer for me is - no

Just as long as people remember that this is a personal decision, and not one you can make for others. I wonder what I would do for my children, both of whom have autism and who I love. But my older child is non-verbal, still wears diapers, and is a flight risk. He cannot take care of himself. I worry what will happen when my wife and I can no longer take care of him adequately. Adult autistic support is not great.

But what will he lose if I "cure" him. Both boys are happy, affectionate, and they are the lights of my life. They are far happier than those who are far more "successful" in life.

It's not easy.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#164
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if I could go back in time and become normal I don't know if this is good news, or bad news but... there is no normal . I know what you meant, what it would be like without ASD. But I'm not sure that would give you any particular insight into anything other than simply being a different person.

>there is no normal I mean, yeah there is? There are 7 billion people on this planet. If you could create some score of peoples intelligence, how they react/respond to people, their normal physical movements and put that into a distribution the autistic people would definitely be on the tail end of the curves. Sure everyone is different in various ways- but a lot of those differences are very small compared to the di…

> If you could create some score of peoples intelligence, how they react/respond to people, their normal physical movements and put that into a distribution the autistic people would definitely be on the tail end of the curves.

Some measurable aspects of human physiology and behavior would fall into a normal distribution (i.e. "bell curve") if you graph it, yes. Bell curves are common enough that there is a lay assumption that all distributions look like that, but it isn't the case, at all. Certain forces are required to lead to that flavor of distribution and in the absence of those, you can get graphs of all sorts of shapes.

For example, if you were to graph "how feminine" a set of people are, you're unlikely to get a bell curve where most people are androgynous. Instead, you get a bimodal distribution where there's a hump on one side for dudes and one on the right for ladies. In fact, graphs of height show a similar distribution.

If you graph how many fingers someone has, you'll probably get something closer to a power law where almost everyone is on the left at "10", a few misfortunate at "9", even few very unlucky at "8", and so on. (Plus a couple of odd points for polydactyly, etc.) This is the famous "long tail" you hear about in economics.

So there is certainly variation in all attributes, but that does not imply that the center of that range is the most populated. And thus, there may not be a "normal" in the typical "average and most common" sense of the word.

What does a normal set of genitals look like?

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#165
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scientific method is not generally served well by people seeking to find a particular answer, as opposed to the truth. Not saying that is the case here, but I agree with the parent-it inspires some scepticism from me.

You gererate a hypothesis and then experimentally test that hypothesis, I don't see anything wrong there. How else would you evaluate new theories that go against convention? Maybe you are suggesting that he fudged the data or otherwise manipulated the experiment to get a desired result?

Of course, but there is a difference between having a hypothesis to test, and believing something and setting out to find evidence for it. Those are some extreme examples of that being an issue, but also things like not publishing negative results can also be a result, less obviously.

I very specifically said that I was not saying that was what happened in this case, just that I agreed that there was something of a red flag.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#166
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autism is a disorder and at some levels it renders the ailed person simply useless.

As mean as this sounds to read, it's the truth. I personally know families who had an autistic child, did their best to accommodate and integrate them, but the child grew up to be nonverbal, destructive, etc. Of course it's not always true. The poster is right that autism isn't inherently bad, just different.

"it renders the ailed person simply useless" is not the truth.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#167
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a medical practitioner and that sounds a little silly to me too. I don't diagnose autism, though. I leave that to the paediatricians. The main reason that diagnosis is a big deal here is it's related to funding packages. I suspect that's also why ability comes into it. The other thing is that autism is somewhat nebulous and it's in part a condition of not being able to cope socially in this world. So because of t…

Adults can be autistic and can have great quality of life improvements from diagnosis and treatment.

I would be interested in references here, as I'm not aware of treatments specific to autism in adults.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#168
post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

in regard to the digit ratio:

I notice my fingers are similar in length if I look at the top of my hand.

But looking at the palm of my hand, as shown in the picture on the wikipedia page, they look very different in length.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adults can be autistic and can have great quality of life improvements from diagnosis and treatment.

What could a high-functioning autistic adult gain from diagnosis and treatment, one who has managed to blend in well enough to go undiagnosed.

A diagnosis allows life to finally make sense. Even for those that are able to blend in, it's really great to have a framework to understand things, and that there's a community that actually understands you because they have first-hand experience of eg, the rage and meltdowns that plague individuals with autism.

Post diagnosis, there's even treatment for some of the things that high-end functioning adults with autism simply can't do without medication, and are negatively judged for by society.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#170
post #26
post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

Same story here: same length of those 2 fingers, complications at birth, damn good memory for things when I was child, and Aspie to the bone.

Don't know about birth complications but otherwise same.
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