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You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

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Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#161

Post by patio11 »

talkingtab wrote: post #51

"For each card processed, a developer will pay an average processing fee of around 2% to 3%" My understanding is that credit card processors, Stripe for example, charge $0.30 + 2.9% of the transaction amount. So for an $0.99 purchase that is roughly 33 cents. On large purchases your statement is true, but in-app purchases average $0.99.

This is one reason why microtransactions are often aggregated by either pre-selling a pseudocurrency or credit or by having the seller essentially extend you credit and capture payment after several microtransactions have gone by. You can see this on iTunes and the App Store; if you buy a song, you are unlikely to get billed for the song immediately. Apple will quietly keep a tab open for a few hours (or days!) and then wrap all purchases into a single transaction, which is much more economic for them.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#162

Post by lukifer »

craftyguy wrote: post #148
lukifer wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a moral/philosophical connection to free speech and the app store pseudo-monopolies (code as speech), but it also happens to be very concrete in Apple's case: you literally cannot tell customers through your app what other alternatives might be used to pay you. (And before someone comments about how this doesn't conflict with the 1st Amendment, you are obviously correct; but free speech is as much a societal…

> but free speech is as much a societal value as a legal construct, and is not limited to the Bill of Rights as its sole champion.) Where, in the US, is the requirement that everyone has to let anyone say anything enshrined? AFAIK, it's not, and is (very) often confused with the Bill of Rights version.

It's enshrined in you and me. :) Law is not the only mechanism for upholding cultural values and norms.

One important distinction is that free expression is not limited to the "right to say anything"; it also includes the right to listen to the expression of others. See, for example, the rich history of librarians resisting turning over records of who reads what books, which could result in a chilling effect where people are scared to read controversial material.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#163

Post by bradknowles »

mattigames wrote: post #118
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

Most console makers make NO money from selling the console itself, zero, nada, because they count on people buying enough games to make up for it, that's almost the opposite of how Apple works, where the extremely high margin they get for each iPhone is their main source of revenue and on top of that they do this thing of charging 30% for each transaction.

That 30% is specifically designed to be a little bit above the cost of running the system as a whole, but not much.

As you point out, they really don't make much in the way of profit on their software or services -- almost all their profit comes from selling the hardware.

So, 30% is just the cost of doing business in the ecosystem. If you don't like that, you don't have to participate in that ecosystem.

It is entirely your choice.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#164

Post by asark »

briandear wrote: post #129
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete. I absolutely am! There is such a thing as unfair competition. As I see it, Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players. I'm free to avoid Amazon too, but as increasing amounts of society move to Amazon as the de-facto web store for everything, how reasonable is it to fully boycott them? Sure it's possible , but it…

How did they achieve dominance? Perhaps it’s because of the very features that you consider bugs?

Seriously. If not for Apple's ability to keep apps from fucking with device performance and battery life (too badly, anyway) and to make their OS and overall app ecosystem relatively secure & reliable, I might as well save money and buy Android. Then just not use my phone anywhere near as much, and be less happy when I do, I guess.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#165

Post by auggierose »

_ph_ wrote: post #138
_ph_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no charge to start development for iOS. The tools are available for any Mac owner.

Sorry, this time I really don't get the downvotes. Did I say anything incorrect? If so, please correct me. If not, why am I downvoted?

Because there are many on here who consider paying $100 for being able to distribute on the App Store outrageous. They don't realise that just putting in 1 hour of your development time to create something usually costs more than that.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#166

Post by solitus »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #158
icebraining wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The First Amendment of the US Constitution is restricted to the government. Free Speech is a wider concept than that.

Why do we chain ourselves to such a limiting construct? Companies; S,C, LLC. They did not exist, and by request they were willed into 'personhood' at the signing of a government pen. They were not required to approve the incorporation request. So, I ask this: Why do we not enforce incorporated entities to also abide by the Bill of Rights as being extensions of the government? They certainly weren't born, and there's…

I agree, these companies have a heavy influence on governments through lobbyists and campaign financing.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#168

Post by bradknowles »

writepub wrote: post #117
nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

It's interesting that you cited retail. In retail, there's an actual cost to stocking items, especially in areas visible to the customer. No such cost exists on the app store, in fact Apple makes you pay extra to advertise for what retailers offer for their 30%. App stores and retailers are different. There's almost no cost to list an app (for Apple, Google) and yet they charge a 30% fee. Apple, especially, is a text…

You may not see any of the behind-the-scenes costs that Apple has to pay for in supporting the ecosystem, but it is a well-known fact that Apple intentionally prices their software and services pretty close to cost, because they make their real profit on hardware sold and the software and services are just used to try to help drive hardware sales.

So, that 30% cost is really just the price of doing business in this ecosystem. It is entirely your choice as to whether or not you participate in this ecosystem.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#169

Post by lancepioch »

Carpetsmoker wrote: post #35
gchokov wrote: post #2

I am happy buying stuff from the iOS store. It's convenient, quick and easy. No objection as an end user.

Apple doesn't allow me to buy anything on my iPhone, as I got my phone in New Zealand, have a British Revolut CC card and phone number, then was in the Netherlands for a while, and am now living in Ireland. I had to switch the region to Netherlands to install the (free) RyanAir app (why?!) which was rather annoying since then it started offering Dutch suggestions for stuff (which I don't want). I can't add my UK CC t…

I could be wrong, but I think that's more because of restrictions from the countries themselves than Apple. I don't think Apple would put unnecessary restrictions in if not for the legal requirements from various countries.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#170

Post by echelon »

scarface74 wrote: post #125
echelon wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can write a game and all at once target Xbox, Playstation, Switch, PC, MacOS, and Linux. You can do physical releases. You can upload your game anywhere, even provide it for distribution on your own website. Everyone has choice in the equation. App stores are vampiric parasites and need to be dismantled. Either that, or these companies need their phone monopolies taken away.

Even when you do a physical release - you still have to get the blessing of the console maker and pay a fee.

That is mitigated by the fact that there are so many options. Gaming is an open space with tons of competition. All of the audience isn't glued to a single platform or two controlled by a single entity.

Gaming companies fight to win over gamers and developers. Not so for Apple and Google with their walled fiefdoms.

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