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Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#161

Post by la_barba »

justin66 wrote: post #153
la_barba wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What purpose does selectively quoting an article serve? I don't see the point (if any) you're making here.

The quote is a representative sample of the article, an article which is illustrative of Musk's apparent disinterest in (or ignorance of) the Toyota Production System. I've never seen a Musk quote that clearly demonstrates he has any idea how TPS works or what he is really competing against.

I read the original Forbes article and his opinions sounded very sane to me, like someone who understands the ground reality, is ambitious but also self-aware. Specifically:-

"The car industry thinks they're really good at manufacturing and actually they are quite good at manufacturing. But they just don't realize just how much potential there is for improvement. It's way more than they think,"

Or

"Musk acknowledged that Tesla had been "a little overconfident, a little complacent" in its ability to crank up production volume for battery packs - its specialty - at its massive battery gigafactory near Reno, Nevada. "

But yes, I could have make Musk sound like an idiot too. I chose not to needlessly take someones words out of context for click-bait. You're free to have your own opinion, and Tesla will keep selling more cars I guess. I'd like to buy one but I cannot afford one at the moment..

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#162

Post by reitzensteinm »

ajross wrote: post #29
reitzensteinm wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. This "you're singling Tesla out" persecution complex is getting old. Tesla is an amazing company in many ways, but there's plenty of bad to go along with the good.

You have a link to equivalent worries about Mazda or Audi or someone? I mean... it's not a persecution complex if there's actual persecution. No one writes articles about tape on Fords. Ever.

No, because Tesla is in the spotlight. It's meant more good and bad press than they'd otherwise have, the majority of which being overwhelming praise.

Stop looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Anyway, your question wasn't would the media write about it, it was would you react the same way. An accusation of personal bias, which gets handed out like candy on Tesla threads. It's toxic.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#163

Post by jacques_chester »

nkoren wrote: post #74
Angostura wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that CNBC is particularly hard on Tesla?

Anonymous anecdotes aside, the scandalous news they report is that Consumer Reports puts Tesla's reliability in the bottom half -- yes, shock and consernation, the BOTTOM HALF!!! -- of all automobile manufactures. Of course, 50% all automobile manufacturers are in the bottom half, and sure, it's not where you want to be. But none of the rest get special attention for being so. Want proof? Do a search for the the foll…

There's a saying in news media: If it bleeds, it leads.

The news media loves a hero and loves even more to tear the hero down. The former sells to fans, but the latter sells to everyone.

It would be bias if they were somehow going above and beyond, but look around. The most successful companies in the world receive immaculate coverage when they so much as blink too loudly.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#164

Post by just_myles »

Barrin92 wrote: post #141
mu_killnine wrote: post #3

As someone who works in manufacturing, I can't count the number of times I've been told to "just make it work". And, in reality, sometimes that truly is the best option in the immediate term to get a system working so you can make enhancements later. But I think that's the operative phrase: so you can enhance later. The challenge is that once the immediate fire is out, it's easy to simply leave things in a half-baked…

>And, in reality, sometimes that truly is the best option in the immediate term to get a system working so you can make enhancements later. well that depends on the industry. Toy manufacturer probably, aeorospace engineer, not so much. I would think of cars without drivers of belonging into the second category.

Me too. Given the importance of the part and what would happen should it go out during operation do to cutting corners.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#165

Post by bllguo »

la_barba wrote: post #161
justin66 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote is a representative sample of the article, an article which is illustrative of Musk's apparent disinterest in (or ignorance of) the Toyota Production System. I've never seen a Musk quote that clearly demonstrates he has any idea how TPS works or what he is really competing against.

I read the original Forbes article and his opinions sounded very sane to me, like someone who understands the ground reality, is ambitious but also self-aware. Specifically:- "The car industry thinks they're really good at manufacturing and actually they are quite good at manufacturing. But they just don't realize just how much potential there is for improvement. It's way more than they think," Or "Musk acknowledged…

would love to hear what about those quotes seem to suggest a deep understanding to you. They seem trite and vague to me.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#166

Post by kosievdmerwe »

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #97
gjm11 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wikipedia "Tesla, Inc." and "History of Tesla, Inc." pages both say explicitly that the company was founded in July 2003 by two other people and that Musk joined in February 2004. Is that wrong? If not, what retconning do you see on Wikipedia?

No that's correct. OP is talking bs.

Well why is Musk listed as a Founder in the side bar then?

Here's a quote from the article: "Eberhard and Tarpenning were the original founders and incorporated Tesla, while Musk, Straubel and Wright joined in a Series A round later on. A lawsuit settlement agreed to by Eberhard and Tesla in September 2009 allows all five to call themselves founders."

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#167

Post by kosievdmerwe »

gjm11 wrote: post #78
sombremesa wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else do you expect from a company where an investor retconned himself into being a founder, including in the Wikipedia entry?

The Wikipedia "Tesla, Inc." and "History of Tesla, Inc." pages both say explicitly that the company was founded in July 2003 by two other people and that Musk joined in February 2004. Is that wrong? If not, what retconning do you see on Wikipedia?

From the wikipedia page: "Eberhard and Tarpenning were the original founders and incorporated Tesla, while Musk, Straubel and Wright joined in a Series A round later on. A lawsuit settlement agreed to by Eberhard and Tesla in September 2009 allows all five to call themselves founders."

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#168

Post by justin66 »

la_barba wrote: post #161
justin66 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quote is a representative sample of the article, an article which is illustrative of Musk's apparent disinterest in (or ignorance of) the Toyota Production System. I've never seen a Musk quote that clearly demonstrates he has any idea how TPS works or what he is really competing against.

I read the original Forbes article and his opinions sounded very sane to me, like someone who understands the ground reality, is ambitious but also self-aware. Specifically:- "The car industry thinks they're really good at manufacturing and actually they are quite good at manufacturing. But they just don't realize just how much potential there is for improvement. It's way more than they think," Or "Musk acknowledged…

> But they just don't realize just how much potential there is for improvement. It's way more than they think

Most people would follow a statement like that by contrasting his ideas with the ideas of his competitor to demonstrate why his ideas are likely to be more effective. You know, make an actual argument. He doesn't do that. He just makes statements about his own superiority, and occasionally when reality intrudes too greatly he engages in a little self-deprecation.

(If someone has a link to where he makes a comparison like that in detail, I'd love to see it. Or any statement that would demonstrate he even knows what Toyota Production System is actually about.)

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#169

Post by clouddrover »

SEJeff wrote: post #93
tzakrajs wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s not even talking about how many cars they have bricked with over the air updates (probably thousands) leaving their owners stranded in the morning.

Source? I've had this happen to me once, but it was due to a battery fault (in the 12V battery amusingly, not the main battery that powers the car) stemming from some arse in a Jeep that hit me the week prior. Tesla sent a "ranger" out who fixed it in my garage in a few hours. Try that with your toyota!

> Try that with your toyota!

In some countries new Toyotas come with two years maintenance and 24-hour roadside assistance:

https://www.toyota.com/toyota-care

And even after that period you can have any mobile mechanic come to your home to service your car. It's not a novelty or something exclusive to Tesla.

Re: Tesla employees say they took shortcuts, worked through harsh conditions

#170

Post by Phase_White »

nkoren wrote: post #74
Angostura wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think that CNBC is particularly hard on Tesla?

Anonymous anecdotes aside, the scandalous news they report is that Consumer Reports puts Tesla's reliability in the bottom half -- yes, shock and consernation, the BOTTOM HALF!!! -- of all automobile manufactures. Of course, 50% all automobile manufacturers are in the bottom half, and sure, it's not where you want to be. But none of the rest get special attention for being so. Want proof? Do a search for the the foll…

All the attention is probably net good for Tesla. The media was laser focused on trump and look at the result.
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