161–170 of 501 posts
I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…
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How can the eyeballs in France view ads if there was chaos outside, and gangs started to cut internet cables? How can eyeballs view ads if they didn't learn from French schools how to go to Google.com and enter search queries?
You missed the question. why is France charging tax to these particular companies? As opposed to all companies? Your answer makes no distinction between them so doesn't actually answer the question.
This is only possible because internet. So, they're imposing a tax on companies that serve French customers via the internet but aren't based in France, so that all companies pay tax again.
Does that make sense?
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Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement? All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits…
> All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits to pay for the services which allowed the profit to be made. So any taxation is justified? > It's not arbitrary to expect businesses to pay for services they benefit from. Any digital company with revenue of more than €750m ($850m; £670m) - of which at least €25m is generated in France - would be s…
Yes. We have income tax in the US. It's the same thing.
Google doesn't have to pay the tax if they're not operating in the country. It says right there that if their revenues are +$25m a year, they are subject to the tax. Conversely, the US can also levy taxes against French digital services, and maybe they should.
My guess is the cost of not operating in France is much higher than the tax to do so, so that would be a silly maneuver.
Tangentially, I find it hilariously hypocritical that the Trump administration is whining about unfair tariffs on digital services.
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Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement? All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits…
> Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement? Ignoring for a moment that this rationale can support any tax policy at all (including 100% tax rates)... This holds…
Isn't that true for any rationale for tax? I mean, I wasn't talking about tax rates, that's a completely separate discussion...
>This holds for all businesses, not just large tech companies. So why is the tax focused on the latter?
Because other businesses are already effectively taxed by existing laws. Overseas tech giants are targeted because they were legally avoiding existing taxes.
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How can the eyeballs in France view ads if there was chaos outside, and gangs started to cut internet cables? How can eyeballs view ads if they didn't learn from French schools how to go to Google.com and enter search queries?
1. Satellites 2. You don't need French schools to learn how to Google things
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How, did you forgot how big US is? We are reminded here on HN how big US is, so it is natural that some US companies will also fall into that tax laws. What will Trump do? tax smaller companies so non US ones are hit harder ? Off topic, did the China tariffs had any good side effect so far?
Which China tariffs? The extreme ones China had been using the last few decades or the recent US ones in response to China's longstanding tarriffs?
I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…
> The other theories of taxation is that it should be used to raise revenue from the best means possible. I disagree with that framework but applying taxes arbitrarily hardly seems fair or the best way to raise revenue. Economists have known for 100 years that land value taxes (LVT) are by far the most efficient way to raise taxes. After that consumption taxes are the next most efficient. Corporate taxes and taxes on…
It makes me wonder, now that cryptocurrency is a thing, if fiscal policy could be embedded directly in the monetary system. Rather than a separate tax that's charged and remitted to the treasury, it'd simply be the difference between what a consumer spends and what a producer receives, much like how transaction fees come straight out of the transaction.
Taxing digital companies based on digital presence certainly makes sense to me, as a layperson. A company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. Taxing only very large corporations - that's a little more questionable, but plenty of countries (including the US) treat small businesses preferentially, so it's not like it's unpreceden…
It's really not that simple. They don't use any of the country infrastructure or workers. If I make a video game and sell it to a person in France does it mean I do business in France? It seems to me it should be treated the same as French person coming to my country, buying my game and going back home. We've just skipped on unnecessary traveling. Those things are subject to debate and power struggle but it's clear t…
Yes, by the commonly and globally accepted definition of "doing business" in a country, selling into a country is doing business in that country.
It seems to me it should be treated the same as French person coming to my country, buying my game and going back home.
No, it would be more like your company going to France, selling the French guy the game, and then coming back to the US. The burden of tax compliance is placed on you, the seller, because you are the one profiting from the activity and therefore morally (and legally) should shoulder the burden.
In fact I think it's both not very consistent with general tax law principles nor practical as the burden of complying with regulations in every country you sell to even if you don't have presence there means many companies dummy won't sell at all to smaller countries.
It's exactly consistent with general tax law in the US and internationally. It's not practical, but that's the price you pay for choosing to make money in another taxing jurisdiction. If you don't want to deal with it, make money somewhere else.
That being said, the US has a good treaty network so that the situation you describe generally wouldn't result in income tax to the US seller unless they had a physical presence in the country of the buyer. Which is exactly why the French tax at issue is an excise tax (not subject to treaty restrictions) and not an income tax (covered by treaty restrictions).
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> What public resources did Amazon, a US company, use from France? Digital infrastructure, anti-poverty programs that mean potential customers still have something to spend, financial infrastructure, legislation, ...
Shouldn't that be covered by the 20% VAT that Amazon pays on goods and services sold to entities in France?
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Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement? All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits…
> Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement? Ignoring for a moment that this rationale can support any tax policy at all (including 100% tax rates)... This holds…