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Is this Paypal experience customary?

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Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#161

I’m going against the consensus here, but why was this guy so concerned about the reversal of a transaction that never should have happened in the first place? It wasn’t his money. Someone at PayPal obviously manually reversed the transaction when they realized the mistake. These things happen. I’ve been using PayPal personally for 10+ years without issue. I also own a company and have processed hundreds of transacti…

Ok, play devil's advocate, but someone could be laundering money through his account. The laws and penalties are extremely severe and being naive is no defense.

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and several of our friends are using venmo for transferring money and seem to like the app.

Guess who owns Venmo? You have 1 attempt.

Wow, I didn't know that PayPal bought them a few years ago. Still, I hear lots of folks like Venmo.

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#163
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PayPal needs to end IMO You say that but it's literally the only way to counter scamming sellers on the internet. PayPal needs to stay, at least until there are viable competitors.

How is it "literally the only way to counter scamming sellers"? There are so many competitors out there that offer better services... Stripe, Google Pay, Moneris, Braintree, Square, WePay, Authorize.net, the list goes on...

[deleted]

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#164
post #9

No, most people would not be this agitated about a mistaken transaction being silently refunded. At best they'd probably assume the notification went to spam or something and went on with their day My bank doesn't notify me about any transactions, I have to check my bank book manually. Once a mistaken transaction showed up and disappeared a few hours later, with no trace left behind at all. I just assumed it was a mi…

> Once a mistaken transaction showed up and disappeared a few hours later, with no trace left behind at all. I just assumed it was a mistake and didn't bother getting angry. In many (all?) countries, your bank would've acted criminally. If money has been deposited to your account, only you or a court order can get it out again. If somebody "just does it", they are on a similar legal basis as somebody that forgot a ja…

PayPal has convinced everyone they shouldn't count as a bank in the US. I have zero idea how they managed this, but the cynic in me would lobbying?

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that doesn't even work. When they don't have a payment method on file that they can abuse, they'll be happy to send your PayPal account into overdraft and start threatening legal action to bully you into settling the balance. Really the only thing to do, as soon as you see a "pay with paypal" screen is to go away screaming. Here's the anecdote: I had had a company with a bank account and PayPal account, then…

Do they use accounts linked for withdrawal to transfer money as well? I have an account linked so I can withdraw PayPal money to the bank, but I don't want them to get money from my bank account to PayPal. Does anyone know how I can avoid that happening?

The point I was trying to make that is actually more general than PayPal was: When you want to take back control over convoluted and untrustworthy systems that end up accessing your account in some way, you can't really do it at the level of the payment mechanism.

I've done this a fair amount in the past: When I would do business with a vendor that I don't trust all that much with the way they do their billing, I would give them a credit card number for a prepaid credit card with tightly controlled balances, instead of giving them anything that's linked to my main bank account.

But it doesn't really help. When the untrustworthy party wants to deduct a payment from the mechanism you've given them and it can't, then they will instead just turn to bullying and threatening legal action, and you end up paying them whatever is in dispute because you won't want to risk them taking legal action.

Another consideration that enters into this is the dark and murky territory of consumer credit rating. If there's an account that's in your name, regardless of whether it's PayPal, a prepaid credit card, a bank account or whatever, and there's a charge that hits the account and there's no balance, then this is an event that they'll collect data about, and that may be disseminated in ways that you may not realize, and it may come back to bite you in the ass when you want to apply for a mortgage or something. So it's best not to go that route.

At the end of the day, the only thing you can do is to not do business with certain kinds of entities at all. And PayPal is definitely on my list of entities not to do business with.

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#166
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PayPal needs to end IMO You say that but it's literally the only way to counter scamming sellers on the internet. PayPal needs to stay, at least until there are viable competitors.

How is it "literally the only way to counter scamming sellers"? There are so many competitors out there that offer better services... Stripe, Google Pay, Moneris, Braintree, Square, WePay, Authorize.net, the list goes on...

I'm talking about eBay and Craigslist sellers, not companies. Anything I buy from companies I can just put on a credit card and chargeback if scammed.

Edit: also googling around none of those seem to have the solid buyer protection that PayPal has. With PayPal I can just open a dispute with a picture of the error (color is off or whatever) and within a relatively short time period the seller is forced to reimburse me the full purchase cost, including shipping. That's very valuable as a customer.

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#167

I rarely use Paypal, but was forced to use it recently for something with no other payment option. Whilst there I decided to change my password, and was horrified to find that they limit passwords to 20 characters. It got me thinking about the standard assumption that any system limiting chars in a password must be storing passwords in plaintext and not hashing them, else there would be no logical reason to do so (si…

I know the "logic" behind modern low password length limits for services like Paypal. Too many of their users are literally incapable of remembering their passwords and call/e-mail them bitching about how they're entering the right password and their account won't let them in and now they can't get to their money and bogus threats of legal action. So they encourage weak passwords and try to handle security on their s…

If you forget your password then there is basically no way of contacting them. I lost my 2FA phone number, and wanted to know if there is anything I can do to get my account back? There is no contact form, no customer chat/phone number, and their issue tracker is only available if you log in. Finally, I found an email address on some other website, contacted them, then I got an email saying they answered my issue, and if I'm satisfied with their answer?

Of course, I never was able to see their answer because I cannot log in to open the issue tracker. So, in the end I just gave up.

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#168

I rarely use Paypal, but was forced to use it recently for something with no other payment option. Whilst there I decided to change my password, and was horrified to find that they limit passwords to 20 characters. It got me thinking about the standard assumption that any system limiting chars in a password must be storing passwords in plaintext and not hashing them, else there would be no logical reason to do so (si…

They've very slowly been getting better at various ridiculous UI issues. For example, they finally have a proper TOTP system (rather than their old security key that nobody used). But yes 20 character password is infuriating. My guess is that, at some point, it's extremely hard to change the password character limit and make sure it's correctly updated everywhere at once. Passwords are used in several places and they…

It is not just foreign phone number, but IBAN too (last time I checked). I live in Spain, and wasn't able to add my German bank account.

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#169
post #25

Yup. This is why I left eBay and PayPal. PayPal charged me £400 which I was lucky I spotted. Eventually after a week got the money back. I never got an explanation why it happened or how I or they would prevent it in future. I prevented it by leaving eBay and Paypal.

Interesting that you are in the UK and still had trouble. Do you think that you got the money back because of the way they are regulated within Europe as a bank rather than the way that they are not regulated in the USA (which is where most of the horror stories I see seem to come from)?

I have no information to make a judgement of this as they didn't tell me what happened. All they did is close the ticket.

Re: Is this Paypal experience customary?

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that doesn't even work. When they don't have a payment method on file that they can abuse, they'll be happy to send your PayPal account into overdraft and start threatening legal action to bully you into settling the balance. Really the only thing to do, as soon as you see a "pay with paypal" screen is to go away screaming. Here's the anecdote: I had had a company with a bank account and PayPal account, then…

Do they use accounts linked for withdrawal to transfer money as well? I have an account linked so I can withdraw PayPal money to the bank, but I don't want them to get money from my bank account to PayPal. Does anyone know how I can avoid that happening?

You need a second bank account, they can pull from the linked one. Protect ya neck!
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