California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
161–170 of 278 posts
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Correct, my phone died after briefly exposing it to salt weather on a beach. I was misled by the ads I saw, there was no implication except in very fine print that saltwater will immediately fry your phone.
Well, frankly, fuck them. Last year on vacation I was this close to taking my phone to the sea with me, because obviously it's "waterproof" (as their marketing copy tells me). Only my wife reminded me that just because they say it is, doesn't mean it actually is, and especially doesn't mean I should risk my expensive phone to test that theory on vacation.
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#163I am reminded of Thoreau's quote: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." The root of the problem is not that we have bots, but that we have normalised lying and deception as part of everyday business. We allow companies to pretend that bots are human beings, and allow call-center employees in third-world countries to pretend (even sometimes though elaborate lying) t…
> allow call-center employees in third-world countries to pretend I agree companies should be forced to tell the truth to their customers, but in all cases where they're asking for details about the customer service rep? That could go weird places. If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status, we wouldn't insist the company disclose it. We'd probably demand they didn't. Honesty is important, ok, but the customer…
Because it has no bearing.
I think a more interesting question is if they wanted to know health information that would be relevant, such as specific mental abnormalities that would influence a person's ability to lie. Then again, even that question is moot because when you ask someone if they are a liar, the truth tellers and liars both answer no.
Current location matters because of laws. If the other individual is in the US, I have a better idea of what recourse I have if my information is misused.
And I don't think this can be dismissed outright as contrived and unreasonable, especially in some cases like doing business in China where IP is treated very differently
But if we use the excuse of the customer having a right to know the laws that bind whom they are talking to, gender and race become an interesting case as well. In a fair and just world, they shouldn't matter one bit. But given our current world, we know that the legal system is not applied to them equally. Racial and gender disparities in sentences can be off by a factor of 27 (this was a back of the napkin estimate I did some years ago based on sentencing data, and was based on the same crime, so it does not include any disparity in what charges are brought). Does a customer have a right to know that the person they are talking to is privileged when it comes to laws being applied and thus has less disincentive to engage in illegal behavior?
>If some portion of the population strongly believes that foreign call centers are lower quality, are you going to get the best possible answers on a survey if you say, "this was a foreign call center, how was the quality?"
Self reports are one of the worst forms of data collection, so it is a bit sad that so many companies still depend only among it when rating their employees. More objective metrics have massive problems with being gamed, but at least they are more objective.
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#164I am reminded of Thoreau's quote: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." The root of the problem is not that we have bots, but that we have normalised lying and deception as part of everyday business. We allow companies to pretend that bots are human beings, and allow call-center employees in third-world countries to pretend (even sometimes though elaborate lying) t…
> allow call-center employees in third-world countries to pretend I agree companies should be forced to tell the truth to their customers, but in all cases where they're asking for details about the customer service rep? That could go weird places. If a caller demanded to know the rep's HIV status, we wouldn't insist the company disclose it. We'd probably demand they didn't. Honesty is important, ok, but the customer…
What the hell are you talking about?
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#165I am reminded of Thoreau's quote: "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." The root of the problem is not that we have bots, but that we have normalised lying and deception as part of everyday business. We allow companies to pretend that bots are human beings, and allow call-center employees in third-world countries to pretend (even sometimes though elaborate lying) t…
> see the Samsung ad which they're currently being hauled over the coals for in Australia. For people not in the know, apparently Samsung is marketing its latest phones as water proof with ads showing surfers and people fully clothed under water. ACCC does not approve of this, as the phones aren't IP rated for use in salt water. https://www.techradar.com/news/samsung-is-getting-sued-in-au...
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I had a website about programming and it had a forum part is it purely personal? What if is it just comment section? What if I had ads to cover server costs vs when I don't have them now? I closed the website because I don't know. And I don't think I would say I know until I hire a lawyer. Re analytics part from another comment, I only care how they interact with my website. Without sharing that info with anybody.…
What if aliens came down and probed your butt? You're throwing about ridiculously obscure edge cases that don't really matter to the point at hand.
Apart from that, an internet forum doesn't seem like a ridiculously obscure edge case.
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#167I really hate this stuff. The article starts out with a paragraph of complete nonsense: "When you ask experts how bots influence politics—that is, what specifically these bits of computer code that purport to be human can accomplish during an election—they will give you a list: bots can smear the opposition through personal attacks; they can exaggerate voters’ fears and anger by repeating short simple slogans; they c…
This whole story is asserting that there are programs routinely running around the internet indistinguishable from humans, making points so excellent they successfully persuade people to switch their political affiliation, which is simply false. The theory isn't that bots are artificial general intelligences trying to convince individuals with clever intellectual debate. The theory is bots try to move the Overton Win…
But secondly and more importantly, even if what you say is true, the theory is still total nonsense!
Where is the evidence for any of this? Where are the networks of bots that were caught spamming low-intelligence identically worded political comments, yet somehow can't be caught by normal spam filters? Where is the testimony of millions of people who decide how to vote by counting duplicate tweets?
This entire theory is literally a conspiracy theory. Like all conspiracy theories, when basic questions are asked it suddenly shapeshifts and starts to claim something different but still wrong.
I don't believe any such bots exist: can anyone show me the evidence that they do? I mean real, first-hand evidence, not assertions of dubious self-proclaimed experts with an agenda.
I can for sure tell you that real humans are routinely labelled as "bots" by people who believe in this conspiracy theory, and can cite evidence:
1. It's happened to me.
2. It's happened to other people:
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201804211063771932-Smeared-Ru...
That may have been the end of it, but then Ian took an invitation to appear on Sky News. The news anchors began by asking the man, who appeared on video remotely, whether he was truly a "Russian bot." "That is 100 percent a total lie and complete fabrication by the UK government," Ian said, with a British accent.
Here's a related case. In fairness, this time it's about "Russian trolls" not "Russian bots", although I've noticed people tend to use the terms interchangeably:
https://order-order.com/2017/11/15/byline-outs-russian-troll...
The Twitter account in question turned out to be a Scottish car park security guard.
Here's a third case of real people being accused of being political bots:
https://www.wired.com/story/how-americans-wound-up-on-twitte...
3. Any time any detail or basic question about this theory is raised, this is exactly what happens - someone pops up saying nobody is claiming the bots are genuinely artificially intelligent, or the claims are changed in other subtle ways. But yes, that's exactly what this very article is claiming:
"The first bots, short for chatbots, couldn’t hide their artificiality. When they were invented, back in the nineteen-sixties, they weren’t capable of manipulating their users. Most bot creators worked in university labs and didn’t conjure these programs to exploit the public. Today’s bots have been designed to achieve specific goals by appearing human and blending into the cacophony of online voices"
The justification for this law is literally that people think AGI has been achieved and is "manipulating" voters by spreading "false narratives". But it's not true, is it?
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Strongly agreed. I didn't want to post yet another "reason #651235 why I loathe adtech" comment, but that's really it. Bots pretending to be people wouldn't be of interest at this level if it was just criminals trying to scam people - it would be just another type of crime. This is a problem because of the almost-fraud tactics of sales and marketing that, for some reason, happen to be on the right side of the legal l…
Ad: It does EVERYTHING !!!! 2pt font on page 14: Except this page of exclusions, and conflicting exclusions, and the fact the company can add any of their choosing at any time without notice.
That copy should really be "for deception purposes only".
Re: California law banning bots from pretending to be real people without disclosure
#169Welcome to the Fifth Annual Californian Turing Test Chatbot Hackathon! This time we've had to introduce some changes to abide by new state legislature. Messages entered into the chat console must be followed immediately by the string " [I am a bot]", whether you are a bot or a human, but especially if you are a human. Good luck and have fun!