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The Toyota Way

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Re: The Toyota Way

#161

Post by artsyca »

artsyca wrote: post #137
Jtsummers wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those companies known for their speed and quality of code delivery? Have they published studies and popularised their approaches? Have they, or anyone else, generalized their approaches to things other than specific software categories? The thing about the manufacturing processes that have come out of Toyota (and others), or the ideas from Deming, Goldratt, and others, is that they're more about general systems t…

Nintendo releases more software than Toyota

Maybe learn to recognize when you're being trolled and quit taking your scrum certification so seriously

Re: The Toyota Way

#162

Post by bagbobillins »

parliament32 wrote: post #143
novaleaf wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the Toyota problem. There was (is?) a firmware issue that caused the vehicle to attempt to speed up, regardless of if the accelerator was pressed, or even if the brake was pressed. In my case, I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake (VERY scary situation, believe me!). The system only recovered when I…

>I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake No, it wasn't. An engine's speed (RPM / "revs") is directly proportional to the drivetrain speed -- the RPMs literally cannot increase unless you are 1) accelerating (actual drivetrain speed going up), 2) shift to a lower gear then slip torque converter to rev match (I assume you're driving automat…

You are mistaken. In a car with an automatic transmission, the engine RPM is related to the drivetrain speed, but not directly proportional. The input and output shafts of the torque converter always spin at different speeds during acceleration.

You can try a similar experiment to the one you proposed in a car with an automatic transmission. Stand firmly on the brake (with the parking brake engaged and nothing in front of the car, for safety), put the car in drive, and give it some gas with your other foot. You can easily get the engine to more than twice the idle speed without the wheels turning at all! (Don't do this for extended periods. It makes the torque converter get hot.)

Re: The Toyota Way

#163

Post by parliament32 »

bagbobillins wrote: post #162
parliament32 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake No, it wasn't. An engine's speed (RPM / "revs") is directly proportional to the drivetrain speed -- the RPMs literally cannot increase unless you are 1) accelerating (actual drivetrain speed going up), 2) shift to a lower gear then slip torque converter to rev match (I assume you're driving automat…

You are mistaken. In a car with an automatic transmission, the engine RPM is related to the drivetrain speed, but not directly proportional. The input and output shafts of the torque converter always spin at different speeds during acceleration. You can try a similar experiment to the one you proposed in a car with an automatic transmission. Stand firmly on the brake (with the parking brake engaged and nothing in fro…

From a standstill yes -- the car is slipping the torque converter between disengaged (neutral, idle in a standstill) and first (to actually get going). Exactly the same as a manual, to get moving from a standstill you have to slip the clutch somewhat, and yes your RPMs will go up.

But that doesn't apply when the car is already in gear and in motion. In both an auto and a manual, if you're applying enough brake to prevent the car from accelerating, the engine will never be "revving" to fight your braking. It will only increase speed if your drivetrain speed increases.

I didn't explicitly state it in the above post because I don't want to crap on the parent too much, but the if he was hitting a pedal and the engine was "revving"... he was probably hitting the gas and accelerating.

Re: The Toyota Way

#164

Post by sprafa »

jakejarvis wrote: post #91
sprafa wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not really limited to terrorists, is it? I mean in the popular imagination but essentially technicals are actually great for a lot of rough terrain variable condition combat. But yeah I understand it’s a big deal in the popular imagination.

Not quite sure what you mean by imagination... Of course Toyotas aren't limited to terrorist groups, but it's definitely been a long-standing trend – so much so that the US Treasury Department asked Toyota to open an inquiry internally regarding ISIS and the dozens of Tacomas and Land Cruisers their propaganda videos: https://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-isis-toyot...

Hahah I did not know that. What I meant was lots of third world military and militia types use technicals, that’s all.

Re: The Toyota Way

#165

Post by windexh8er »

mbubb wrote: post #131
hinkley wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I’ve heard it, Deming was having trouble getting people to listen to him on this side of the pond, but the Japanese were all too happy to listen to his ideas. There also seems to be a running disagreement about whether Mr Toyoda or Taiichi Ohno is responsible for the Toyota system. To wit, the intro to Ohno’s Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiichi_Ohno

> As I’ve heard it, Deming was having trouble getting people to listen to him made me chuckle - its not like he did anything of value... Deming has always been a reminder to think about counter tendencies. He might not have made sense to the Detroit execs in 1950-1975 but his relevance changed sharply after that.

Deming didn't do "anything of value"? Considering Kaizen and the concept of continuous improvement in Japan is mostly attributed to him. The prime minister awarded him the Order of the Sacred Treasure and recognizes him for their post-war rebirth as an industrial power. Detroit did everything wrong at the time (see GM's disaster in automation at their Hamtramck facility [0]). Even when American execs were posed with a simple question of why their own employees didn't buy their product they didn't understand the disconnect between quality, reliability and the awareness of the buyer.

[0] https://www.leanblog.org/2016/06/gms-ceo-roger-smith-thought...

Re: The Toyota Way

#166

Post by khalvin »

This is no longer the case. Toyota quality is been slipping lately. I got a brand new Toyota the dealer had to replace transmission after 3k.

Re: The Toyota Way

#167

Post by TotempaaltJ »

windexh8er wrote: post #165
mbubb wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I’ve heard it, Deming was having trouble getting people to listen to him made me chuckle - its not like he did anything of value... Deming has always been a reminder to think about counter tendencies. He might not have made sense to the Detroit execs in 1950-1975 but his relevance changed sharply after that.

Deming didn't do "anything of value"? Considering Kaizen and the concept of continuous improvement in Japan is mostly attributed to him. The prime minister awarded him the Order of the Sacred Treasure and recognizes him for their post-war rebirth as an industrial power. Detroit did everything wrong at the time (see GM's disaster in automation at their Hamtramck facility [0]). Even when American execs were posed with…

I think gp was being sarcastic...

Re: The Toyota Way

#168

Post by jopsen »

lemax wrote: post #53

"The Machine That Changed the World" is a wonderful title on this. Kiichiro Toyoda invented the lean production model after coming to the states and studying the inefficiencies of the assembly lines of Ford. This was a process dependent on modularizing every manufacturing component due to a demand for the Toyota company to serve a market with a need for an immense variety of vehicles, and giving teams ownership of th…

Interesting point about iteration speed.

I suppose today Tesla with their over-the-air updates is redefining product dev-cycles..

Re: The Toyota Way

#169

Post by [deleted] »

novaleaf wrote: post #125
btilly wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most cases of unintended acceleration, in all brands of cars, are due to the foot coming down on the wrong pedal. And then in a panic, your brain refuses to acknowledge the error and doubles down. Your memory gets based on what your brain thought, and not what actually happened. US government estimates are that this happens an average of around 16k times per year in the USA. The press release that Wikipedia cites for…

I'm sorry but you are wrong regarding the Toyota problem. There was (is?) a firmware issue that caused the vehicle to attempt to speed up, regardless of if the accelerator was pressed, or even if the brake was pressed. In my case, I had the brake fully depressed with around 100kg of force, and the engine was revving to attempt to overcome the brake (VERY scary situation, believe me!). The system only recovered when I…

[deleted]

Re: The Toyota Way

#170

Post by ummonk »

novaleaf wrote: post #128
maimeowmeow wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

maybe you were pressing both

From what I understand, the computer will (and should) reject the acceleration attempt in favor of the brake. But, if you own a reasonably modern vehicle, try it :)

I could rev my engine while pressing the brake on a 2014 Honda Civic (helped with not going backwards when I needed to start moving from a standstill on a steep hill). Is that modern enough for you?

(On the other hand my 2017 Subaru Forester does not do the same; thankfully it has less of a tendency to roll backwards when releasing the brake on a steep hill.)

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