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Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

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Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#161

Post by yardie »

thatoneuser wrote: post #53

It sounds like you're taking a very one sided perspective in evaluating this. The story is pretty clear - a black kid stole product, the owner tried to protect his product, the kid cried racism, the college called racism, the college encouraged and orchestrated protests, the college financially intervened by removing contracts with the business, etc. Since when is someone not entitled to protecting their property? He…

Well that went off the rails real fast. Might want to wall back that last paragraph. No one is hating on whites. Nazis, on the other hand, can go fuck themselves.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#162

Post by elicash »

deogeo wrote: post #59
pessimizer wrote: post #51

It's strange that stories from the progressive end of this discussion get (often rightfully) flagged into oblivion in seconds, but this conservative campus panic story survives to 45 comments.

The 8chan warrant story is still on the 2nd page after a whole day, and wasn't flagged. And this story is about a $887 million institution pressuring a working-class assault victim to drop charges against their attackers, by using libel and economic sanctions. So what makes this story 'conservative'? That the victim was white?

Most of the interest in this story has been in right-wing media stemming from a false "racism" accusation that is a PART of this case and also due to a bigger narrative around left-wing campuses. I'd frame the story differently than you did, but the bigger point is that we shouldn't pretend this isn't mostly a right-wing media news story for these reasons.

I think we both agree that if the racism charge had strong merit (it didn't), then most would see this as a liberal news story because that's mostly who would be focusing on it. People tend to be drawn to stories that reinforce their world view.

That, of course, doesn't mean it shouldn't be part of the discussion here. (I've been active in this thread so obviously I think it should be here.)

Edit: Also, I'm not the person you were responding to but this was very dishonest of you:

> That the victim was white?

OP said exactly why they thought it was conservative. They cited that it was because it was related to "conservative campus panic." To pretend they could have said it because "the victim was white" is very dishonest of you.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#163

Post by elicash »

deogeo wrote: post #111
elicash wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think simply calling somebody "racist" should EVER be libel. Even when inaccurate. But hey, that's me and I'm a free speech supporter.

What about calling someone a pedophile? Should that also not be libel? And before you claim it's different because being a pedophile is a crime - it's not a crime. Acting on it is. Just how being racist isn't a crime, but refusing to serve customers based on race is.

What about "jerk?" Should that be libel if there's no evidence the person is a jerk?

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#164

Post by Fins »

djakjxnanjak wrote: post #125
rayiner wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A university dean admitted to passing out a flyer that falsely stated that the Oberlin student had been assaulted: https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/05/gibsons-bakery-v-oberl... . A police officer testified that the Oberlin students had assaulted the bakery employee, not the other way around. The flyer also stated that the bakery had a long history of racial profiling. But at trial the dean admitted that she didn’t…

Whether someone is a victim of assault or rightfully practiced self-defense is often a difficult question dependent on the states of mind of the people involved in a volatile situation, remembered through the veil of faulty human memories. Details like who used force first are pretty much impossible to determine without a video recording. Of course, police officers are as fallible as anyone else. Defamation requires…

Given that students in question plead guilty, it seems quite plausible that "willful disregard for the truth" is exactly what happened here.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#165

Post by thatoneuser »

yardie wrote: post #161
thatoneuser wrote: post #53

It sounds like you're taking a very one sided perspective in evaluating this. The story is pretty clear - a black kid stole product, the owner tried to protect his product, the kid cried racism, the college called racism, the college encouraged and orchestrated protests, the college financially intervened by removing contracts with the business, etc. Since when is someone not entitled to protecting their property? He…

Well that went off the rails real fast. Might want to wall back that last paragraph. No one is hating on whites. Nazis, on the other hand, can go fuck themselves.

Let me guess, everyone suffers from racism except white people. And white people are the only ones who can be racist.

I've learned a lot about HN today.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#166

Post by lliamander »

elicash wrote: post #76
grellas wrote: post #14

A bit more factual context: 1. The student "protests" erupted the day after the 2016 election results came in, with a corresponding politically inflammatory element at work in the background. 2. The underlying incident involved an underaged black student who attempted to buy a bottle of wine, was refused, and was then found to have 2 other bottles under his coat as he walked out. When the owner's son chased him out,…

Thanks for this. I hadn't dug deeply into this previously. Reading this, I'm struck by how fragile our first amendment is that you can be sued for participating in a protest. It sounds like the only things that the university did "wrong" was end a contract and also one of their deans took active part in protesting. Much of the glee seems to stem from the fact that the speech being expressed in the protest was dumb. I…

Libel has never been protected speech.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#167

Post by lliamander »

elicash wrote: post #159
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Free speech standards in the US requires you have evidence to back up what you're saying if you're going to speak negatively of someone You're free to speak negatively of people, you just can't damage someone's reputation by spreading false facts. I'm allowed to call my neighbor a poopyhead or the like, but I can't tell people that he sexually molests children. Debate is fine, lively discussion is fine, talking nega…

> I'm allowed to call my neighbor a poopyhead or the like, but I can't tell people that he sexually molests children. "Racist" is more in the category of the former than the latter. The "assault" allegation in the flier handed out, in part, by a dean is admittedly more of a gray area than either of your examples.

> "Racist" is more in the category of the former than the latter.

Depends on how likely you are to be fired from you job if you are accused.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#168

Post by dang »

thatoneuser wrote: post #53

It sounds like you're taking a very one sided perspective in evaluating this. The story is pretty clear - a black kid stole product, the owner tried to protect his product, the kid cried racism, the college called racism, the college encouraged and orchestrated protests, the college financially intervened by removing contracts with the business, etc. Since when is someone not entitled to protecting their property? He…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20191889.

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#169

Post by dang »

thatoneuser wrote: post #165
yardie wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that went off the rails real fast. Might want to wall back that last paragraph. No one is hating on whites. Nazis, on the other hand, can go fuck themselves.

Let me guess, everyone suffers from racism except white people. And white people are the only ones who can be racist. I've learned a lot about HN today.

We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Oberlin College case shows how universities are losing their way

#170

Post by Fins »

yardie wrote: post #161
thatoneuser wrote: post #53

It sounds like you're taking a very one sided perspective in evaluating this. The story is pretty clear - a black kid stole product, the owner tried to protect his product, the kid cried racism, the college called racism, the college encouraged and orchestrated protests, the college financially intervened by removing contracts with the business, etc. Since when is someone not entitled to protecting their property? He…

Well that went off the rails real fast. Might want to wall back that last paragraph. No one is hating on whites. Nazis, on the other hand, can go fuck themselves.

Would the bakery owners be the "literal nazis" in this case?
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