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Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

nytimes.com

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Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#161

Post by the_pwner224 »

no1youknowz wrote: post #2

This can only be a good thing. There are now alternatives to plastic from biodegradable materials such as lobster shells and cactus juice. I'm sure with more research and better methods, mother nature can offer more materials to use for consumption tools. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBSzxQLQSpI [1]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-48497933/how-to-make-b...

PLA plastic is made from just organic materials. It degrades into lactic acid, and is safely used for medical implants. It doesn't degrade naturally at normal temperatures, but can be effectively recycled, composted, or incinerated.

Right now it mostly gets thrown away into the environment like most trash, but is a sustainable plastic if handled properly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polylactic_acid

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioplastic

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#162

Post by hedora »

yardstick wrote: post #103
nostromo wrote: post #37

I really wish they would include exceptions for biodegradable plastics -- which are increasingly indistinguishable from polymer plastics. When you ban "single use" plastics, people often buy "multi-use" plastics -- which are actually worse for the environment if not used many times, and people often only use them once. There are a number of stores around me where they have thick, heavy plastic bags for purchase for 5…

Sounds like the price of reusable bags is too low where you are. There needs to be a price floor to discourage single-use. Eg 50 cents minimum per bag? In the UK we charge 5p for a single use bag, although lots of stores now only sell multi-use bags at 10p or more. I think it’s making a difference, I now actively carry a couple reusable bags around “just in case” I decide to visit a supermarket or spur of the moment…

In countries where they actually banned disposable shopping bags, it was even worse.

People end up buying more trash bags (since they had small trash cans to fit the disposable bags), which are thicker, and something like 10x less efficient in garbage removal per pound of plastic than the banned bags. (I’m guessing your stats don’t count trash bags, unless people in the UK use fewer than one a week).

On its own, that was enough to increase plastic in the waste stream.

If you add in other problems (like buying “reusable” bags, then throwing them out), it gets even worse.

So, you need to ban all plastic bags for these measures to actually help.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#163

Post by mrpopo »

asark wrote: post #47
baron816 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory (no evidence) is that the whole recycling movement has been completely counter productive since most of that material has been shipping abroad to countries that are poorly regulated. Had we just stuffed it into landfill (we have no shortage of space to take care of it, despite what the media says), we would be fine.

On the landfill topic, I found this Slate Star Codex post very interesting: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/01/01/what-happened-to-90s-e... I'd been idly wondering about the topic for years—specifically, WTF happened to all those environmental things schools & kids' nature magazines & cartoons had all the students worked up about back in the 90s? Are they fine now? Did it all go poorly so they gave up? You know, save…

The poster doesn't seem to know much about any of the technical problems he's touching, and he's completely out of touch in some cases. I wouldn't pay any attention to his conclusions.

About "6. Peak Resource", which is the topic I feel most comfortable debunking :

- Peak oil is happening right now in many regions of the globe, the North sea passed its peak oil a decade ago, and he doesn't mention it. This peak oil/gas is currently putting Germany at a political risk, being more and more dependent on Russian gas.

- He puts up the price of oil as an indicator of resource scarcity. This might sound true to our small minds used to the "supply-demand" paradigm. But the price indicated is mostly controlled by politics rather than supply and demand. E.g. Gulf states trying to take other countries out of the oil market by artificially deflating prices thanks to their larger supplies.

- He mentions fracking/shale oil as a revolutionary new technique, although it was already researched at the times. He also fails to mention that fracking in the USA is awfully subsidized, not profitable and has not ever been. He also doesn't mention the new environmental impacts caused by this technique. The fracking companies are legally entitled to clean up their mess, but when they go bankrupt, not much they can do...

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#164

Post by hedora »

Kluny wrote: post #100
nostromo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... according to a "a student researcher from UVic who assisted" a surfing advocacy organization and some other randos. Yes, litter will still be an issue, and no, you shouldn't just throw compostable things on the beach -- but comparing polymers which will float in the ocean for hundreds of years vs some compressed corn starch is no contest.

Look, this is my organization (Surfrider) and we put on a talk to learn about compostables. Two of the others were professionals who run industrial composting facilities. If you want a better source you can check out the 5 Gyres report linked in the article (BAN Report). It shows time-lapse photographs of so-called biodegradable items over time. The term biodegradable is itself problematic - everything is biodegradab…

I read that something like 50% of all plastic in the ocean is abandoned fishing nets.

Also, the UN says we are a decade or so from fishing all saltwater fish to extinction.

What do you think about banning the production of plastic fishing nets?

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#165

Post by hedora »

darkpuma wrote: post #133
amyjess wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and they'll also get soggy and dissolve in your drinks.

They just need more wax then. Cups made from paper work perfectly well; so should straws.

The cups are typically coated in plastic, last time I checked. (This is not obvious from looking at them though).

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#166

Post by yardstick »

user5994461 wrote: post #115
yardstick wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the price of reusable bags is too low where you are. There needs to be a price floor to discourage single-use. Eg 50 cents minimum per bag? In the UK we charge 5p for a single use bag, although lots of stores now only sell multi-use bags at 10p or more. I think it’s making a difference, I now actively carry a couple reusable bags around “just in case” I decide to visit a supermarket or spur of the moment…

The ban of plastic bag is a joke in the UK. The supermarket gives you the same shitty bag that's tore apart in 3 uses, except it's called reusable and you have to pay for it. There is only maybe Lidl that has reusable bags, if they still do them, and that's half a pound each.

I’ve got a variety of 50p bags from Asda, Waitrose, Tescos that I still use more than a year after I bought them.

Asda also a bag for life deal, I have swapped a couple out in the past due to tears (years after originally buying them). I assume but cannot verify Asda recycles the broken bags.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#167

Post by yardstick »

hedora wrote: post #162
yardstick wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the price of reusable bags is too low where you are. There needs to be a price floor to discourage single-use. Eg 50 cents minimum per bag? In the UK we charge 5p for a single use bag, although lots of stores now only sell multi-use bags at 10p or more. I think it’s making a difference, I now actively carry a couple reusable bags around “just in case” I decide to visit a supermarket or spur of the moment…

In countries where they actually banned disposable shopping bags, it was even worse. People end up buying more trash bags (since they had small trash cans to fit the disposable bags), which are thicker, and something like 10x less efficient in garbage removal per pound of plastic than the banned bags. (I’m guessing your stats don’t count trash bags, unless people in the UK use fewer than one a week). On its own, that…

Interesting, do you have a source for this?

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#168

Post by Meai »

DINKDINK wrote: post #112

Will the production of plastic waste reduce when the outlawing of thin plastics is replaced by thicker plastics? Your politician who benefits from passing feel-good legislation says yes. Reality might surprise you: "In particular, my results showed that bag bans caused sales of small (4 gallon), medium (8 gallon) and large (13 gallon) trash bags to increase by 120 percent, 64 percent and 6 percent respectively." http…

I think this really needs to be solved on a human psyche level. Print a QR code on durable plastic/cloth bags that you can buy from stores and then you can check your green score after each visit to the store where you reused your bag. Make bags a fashion statement with customized prints, at that point you can even let people move over their green points to a new bag if they want a new one or it fails on them.

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#169

Post by selimthegrim »

bobthepanda wrote: post #106
jlawson wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep saying this, but is there any evidence for it? I'm curious where this comes from. At first estimate we could just Google images of polluted rivers in Asia and Africa and look at the logos on the garbage. From my priors, I'd estimate that the plastics would almost all be from locally-consumed products, simply thrown into the river as is common and accepted in such places. My sense is that a lot of educated…

China tightened up regulations on importing recycling waste last year and Western recycling was hit extremely hard: https://www.wired.com/story/the-worlds-recycling-is-in-chaos... > It has been a year since China jammed the works of recycling programs around the world by essentially shutting down what had been the industry’s biggest market. China’s National Sword policy, enacted in January 2018, banned the import of…

I wonder what makes glass more suitable

Re: Canada Plans to Ban Single-Use Plastics, Joining Growing Global Movement

#170

Post by maxxxxx »

ridicter wrote: post #25

I see comments pointing out that the majority of plastic pollution in oceans come from Asia/Africa. This is true, but there are two points worth considering: 1) Whenever you pay cheaply for anything made in any third world country, you're externalizing the societal cost of pollution to that country (and if it gets into the oceans, to everyone). In other words, you're not paying the true cost of that item--economicall…

We should just do the right thing no matter what everybody else is doing. That's called leadership.
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