How Fragmented Is Android? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#161

Post by pjmlp » Mon, May 27, 2019, 9:29 AM UTC

blihp wrote: post #44

on_and_off wrote: post #4

I work on an Android app aimed at the North American market. Android O, P and Q are 88% of our Android devices. By far and large, fragmentation is something I _never_ have to think about. Jetpack libraries are here to handle it for us, as an abstraction layer between the OS and third party apps. I would have mentioned that e.g. camera apps are an exception : here hardware fragmentation can be a pain. I was half surpr…

It sounds like you're rolling with whatever Google's latest 'solution' to fragmentation is, so of course it's not going to be an issue: Google is dropping old devices for you so they never even appear in your console stats.[1] This is a perfectly valid business decision to take on your end, but it doesn't mean that the problem doesn't still exist... only that you aren't having to deal with it. I've got several still…

My Asus Lolipop Tablet (Aka Android 5.x) can certainly use the market.

Just like the "deal of the day" ones that are still being sold across German consumer stores at shopping malls.

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#162

Post by alkonaut » Mon, May 27, 2019, 9:45 AM UTC

on_and_off wrote: post #4

I work on an Android app aimed at the North American market. Android O, P and Q are 88% of our Android devices. By far and large, fragmentation is something I _never_ have to think about. Jetpack libraries are here to handle it for us, as an abstraction layer between the OS and third party apps. I would have mentioned that e.g. camera apps are an exception : here hardware fragmentation can be a pain. I was half surpr…

The Q is of course: how many do you need to support. This is the same as with browsers. If you have to code for blind people using IE6 with JS off, you are coding for the lowest common denominator. This happens.

If you can just code for "The 90% with a reasonably modern browser, at least one working eye and JS enablded" then you are in a different situation.

Fragmentation hurts the people in the first camp that need to support 99% or more, for example if you are coding an app for a government service and not for a startup.

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#163

Post by alkonaut » Mon, May 27, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #57

stesch wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way: iPhone 4 supports iOS 7.1.2, released 4 years after the iPhone 4.

I'm not sure why the GP said his iPhone 4 won't upgrade past iOS 5, but it's worth noting: while an iPhone 4 can be upgraded to iOS 7, actually doing so is a bad idea unless you want your phone to run slow as molasses. You'll be much better off on iOS 6 or 5. (I suppose there may be a security argument for upgrading as far as possible, but it's not like iOS 7 is up-to-date either. If you're concerned about security,…

> You'll be much better off on iOS 6 or 5.

Sure. But if you are making an app for say a government service that has as a requirement to reach 98% of mobile users, and you reach the goal if you count compatible devices (not people who choise not to upgrade) then it helps.

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#164

Post by oblio » Mon, May 27, 2019, 10:09 AM UTC

robocat wrote: post #76

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #60

I know this post is about Android versions but I recently launched a new service and have been watching user agents and I’ve been pleasantly surprised to see no matter the Android version, it’s almost always running Chrome 73/Firefox 66. I have a user running Android 5.5.1, another on some version of 4! Yet they’re on modern browsers. This isn’t true for anyone on an old iOS. Those users are stuck with old browsers,…

FYI: Android 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 will soon get no more updates to Chrome[1]. Android 4.0 is stuck on an old version of Chrome. For WebView, Android 4.4 is stuck on Chrome 30/33 and anything older still uses AOSP. Samsung users often use the Samsung browser, which is often a very obsolete version that came with the phone. 1. https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-android-droppin...

Android 4.1-3 are from 2012, early 2013. So 6-7 years old. Those old devices are barely functional to view modern webpages, anyway.

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#165

Post by dmitryminkovsky » Mon, May 27, 2019, 10:19 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #164

robocat wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI: Android 4.1, 4.2 and 4.3 will soon get no more updates to Chrome[1]. Android 4.0 is stuck on an old version of Chrome. For WebView, Android 4.4 is stuck on Chrome 30/33 and anything older still uses AOSP. Samsung users often use the Samsung browser, which is often a very obsolete version that came with the phone. 1. https://www.xda-developers.com/google-chrome-android-droppin...

Android 4.1-3 are from 2012, early 2013. So 6-7 years old. Those old devices are barely functional to view modern webpages, anyway.

That’s the assumption I made but is that actually true you think? This is true of iOS devices after OS upgrades, I’ve experienced this myself: Apple ruins old devices with software updates. But I somehow doubt that a phone from 2012 must be ruined with bad software. Any idea?

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#166

Post by twntee » Mon, May 27, 2019, 10:52 AM UTC

You are not looking at the right thing here IMO. The OS is fragmented no questions there, the Play services aren't. Also most of the components for the OS are updated using Playstore.

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#167

Post by signal11 » Mon, May 27, 2019, 11:28 AM UTC

radley wrote: post #63

blihp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken that the U.S./Canada stats likely skew to more recent versions. However, I'm in the U.S. and several of my devices couldn't possibly even download his company's app. Granted, I'm an outlier and tend to use my devices until they die. (they are actually still pretty useful around-the-house devices and can browse the web, watch videos, play some older games etc. Maybe I'll fire up a couple of them and open t…

That's not unique to Android. I still use an old iPad 3 (stuck on iOS 9) for movies & audiobooks in bed. I can still use Netflix, Plex, & Audible because I downloaded them a long time ago. But I recently switched to 1Password and I can't install it on that iPad.

According to 1Password's support forum, "1Password 6 supports 1Password.com accounts, and that will run on iOS 9 and 10"[1].

The iPad 3 was quite problematic as a device in that it was very RAM- and CPU-limited. With a 1GHz dual-core A9 and 1GB RAM, it was not going to handle future iOS updates well.

The next version, the 2012 iPad, runs iOS 10 and is still useful -- I still have one lying around for when I need an iPad (and I do have 1Password on it). And the 2013 iPad Air runs the latest iOS and I expect this to continue as iPad tech plateaus.

Lack of OS updates isn't unique to Android, but Android manufacturers collectively have a very blasé attitude to updates, much worse than Apple and Microsoft.

[1] https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/comment/408090/...

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#168

Post by jmiskovic » Mon, May 27, 2019, 12:25 PM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #146

jmiskovic wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android was written for 32 bit. It couldn't run 64-bit before Lollipop. Currently there's about 2% of 64-bit Android devices ( https://web.archive.org/web/20170808222202/http://hwstats.un... ). I agree with performance argument, especially on battery-powered devices. But in this case there's nothing to be gained because LuaJIT is written for 32-bit CPU. Compiling for 64 bits won't do anything. Besides, hardly anythin…

Why are you using an internet archive link from 2 years ago to support a claim about "currently"? It also seems to be misclassifying everything ARM into one bucket (probably because the stats were being collected from 32-bit code...). It looks to me like for the past 3 years every single mobile ARM CPU released has been 64-bit, and even for 2 years before that roughly half of them, the market share of these must be m…

This is the best data I could dig up. I would love to see newer statistics of market share, if anyone has a link.

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#169

Post by diffeomorphism » Mon, May 27, 2019, 12:56 PM UTC

DiabloD3 wrote: post #16

pekalicious wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes Samsung phones consumer hostile? Their ridiculous prices? Because I wouldn't call that hostile, rather simply overpriced. And I would agree that they are. However, I still have every galaxy note I have ever owned, working, and in great condition (Note 2, 5, and now 8). My dad is actually using the 5. All of them got upgraded at least once to a newer Android OS and they are still solid devices. Granted, oth…

Samsung phones ship with ROMs that try to remove as much of the native Android experience as possible, and tend to eat battery life for no good reason. Swapping ROMs to AOSP-like experiences vastly improves battery life and performance on many Samsung phones. Several Galaxy and Note devices also cannot ROM swap at all due to locked bootloaders, which makes that the most consumer hostile thing of all. I'm not sure whi…

Does the whole Huawei story not show that it is an extremely smart decision to "remove as much of the native Android experience as possible"?

The bootloader, knox, e-fuse thing I agree is consumer hostile. They are free to ship them locked but should include an override option for supposed owner of the device.

Re: How Fragmented Is Android?

#170

Post by _Codemonkeyism » Mon, May 27, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

radley wrote: post #63

blihp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken that the U.S./Canada stats likely skew to more recent versions. However, I'm in the U.S. and several of my devices couldn't possibly even download his company's app. Granted, I'm an outlier and tend to use my devices until they die. (they are actually still pretty useful around-the-house devices and can browse the web, watch videos, play some older games etc. Maybe I'll fire up a couple of them and open t…

That's not unique to Android. I still use an old iPad 3 (stuck on iOS 9) for movies & audiobooks in bed. I can still use Netflix, Plex, & Audible because I downloaded them a long time ago. But I recently switched to 1Password and I can't install it on that iPad.

Same here.