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JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

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Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#161

Post by C1sc0cat »

lm28469 wrote: post #155
C1sc0cat wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense are they "hell" and how come you think free movement is a privilege - that sounds a bit elitist. Free movement is a right in the EU BTW

> In what sense are they "hell" Deezer/Jump/OFO/Mobike/DonkeyRepublic bikes everywhere, now they even started using electric scooters, parking them in front of monuments, in the middle of the already small sidewalks, on the road (??!) You can't go to museum/parks/monuments/local biergarten. Public transports can't keep up. Even worst, roads can't keep up (uber + car2go + taxis everywhere) Half of the flats in tourist…

This sounds like a rant presumably you would like to have active and passive citizens ?

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#162

Post by C1sc0cat »

Jonnerz wrote: post #147
C1sc0cat wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense are they "hell" and how come you think free movement is a privilege - that sounds a bit elitist. Free movement is a right in the EU BTW

Free movement is a right yes, but flying is not...

Isn't limiting flying to the rich anti democratic.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#163

Post by justwalt »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #119
CPLX wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quantity has a quality all its own, as they say. If you live in a town and there’s a couple security guards or even cops that can recognize you, that’s pretty normal. If there were thousands of private security guards as well as cops hired by the government stationed all around you, in every part of your life, gazing at you from every corner, and they had all been trained to recognize you, and every time you walked b…

And you'd justifiably tell them to not do it... And if you are not able to stop them from doing that, may I suggest you have a bigger problem with your government or the security guards than being tracked by them? Again: Tracking personal data is regulateable, facial recognition technology is not. And the mere act of checking the identity of a person for legitimate access control purposes is no unreasonable infringem…

Wouldn’t agencies like the NSA use it regardless of what regulations say? Wouldn’t policy be shaped by what large corporations saw as valuable? I think that big problem already exists to a degree, and it’s only a matter of time before this sort of thing gets uncomfortably out of hand.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#164

Post by justwalt »

duckface wrote: post #94
ehnto wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that ubiquitous facial recognition allows for near seamless tracking of individuals and explicitly without a warrant or their consent. It's an important milestone because it moves us from a "reasonable book keeping" level of tracking to full blown seamless tracking and again importantly, without our consent. To imagine it a bit more viscerally, imagine instead that the system had no cameras and inst…

you people are pretty stupid. ATMs have tracking, point of point of sale has tracking, your phone, internet it's all tracked and linked back to you.

I think you’re right. Maybe we should skip the facial recognition and install RFID tags behind our eyes, after all, they basically know all of that info already anyways.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#165

Post by lm28469 »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #161
lm28469 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what sense are they "hell" Deezer/Jump/OFO/Mobike/DonkeyRepublic bikes everywhere, now they even started using electric scooters, parking them in front of monuments, in the middle of the already small sidewalks, on the road (??!) You can't go to museum/parks/monuments/local biergarten. Public transports can't keep up. Even worst, roads can't keep up (uber + car2go + taxis everywhere) Half of the flats in tourist…

This sounds like a rant presumably you would like to have active and passive citizens ?

It sure is a rant, but it's my daily life.

> you would like to have active and passive citizens ?

No, just informed and non destructive tourism. The number of tourists coming to berlin, for example, doubled in 10 years, the infrastructure almost didn't change in the same time. 3.5 million inhabitants, 14[0] millions annual tourists. Every single month of the year: 40%+ of the population is made of tourists.

[0] edit: 13.5 million guests, 32.9 million overnight stays. https://about.visitberlin.de/en/materialien/toolkit/tourism-...

https://ourworldindata.org/tourism

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#166

Post by vinay427 »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #151
skohan wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think we need to be more precise about what exactly is spooking us and why. What's spooking me is the normalization of facial recognition technology for identification without adequate public agreement over what the limits of its applications should be. A machine recognizing me is a lot different than a human recognizing me. If a machine can recognize me, there can be cameras posted at every street corner, and so…

Add to that that the convenience argument is pretty much bullshit. At least when you apply it to travels in the Schengen countries. On such flights you essentially (can) check in remotely, receive the QR code via mail and essentially badge yourself into the plane all the way without ever showing ID. I can't fathom that scanning my face is any faster than that.

This isn't quite accurate for some parts of the Schengen area. Everyone on my flight was required to go through ID controlled when flying out of "Switzerland" [1] to an EU Schengen area country, though I'm very aware that CH is usually an oddball in these matters.

[1] The Basel airport is technically in France, though the Swiss part of the airport which I entered is treated like it's in Switzerland and not in the EU, as far as I understand.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#167

Post by CaptainZapp »

vinay427 wrote: post #166
CaptainZapp wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add to that that the convenience argument is pretty much bullshit. At least when you apply it to travels in the Schengen countries. On such flights you essentially (can) check in remotely, receive the QR code via mail and essentially badge yourself into the plane all the way without ever showing ID. I can't fathom that scanning my face is any faster than that.

This isn't quite accurate for some parts of the Schengen area. Everyone on my flight was required to go through ID controlled when flying out of "Switzerland" [1] to an EU Schengen area country, though I'm very aware that CH is usually an oddball in these matters. [1] The Basel airport is technically in France, though the Swiss part of the airport which I entered is treated like it's in Switzerland and not in the EU,…

I took dozens of flghts out of and into ZRH and was checked exactly twice. Both times upon arrival at the gate:

Once upon arrival in Prague and once in Zurich upon arrival from Athens.

In all other cases the whole process, at least in ZRH, was completely automated.

It does depend on country and airport, though.

Customs is a whole different kettle of fish. But as for id, I'm very rarely asked.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#168

Post by Proven »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #101

I have to admit my naivety on this, but: What exactly is the problem here? Both the airlines and the involved law enforcement have a right or even a duty to know who you are when you are boarding the plane. They also have facial recognition data, either from a passport photo or putting a camera in front of the check-in, and arguably they have a right to that. People walk around with their faces all the time. They pos…

> I keep coming back to the conclusion that it is more important and effective to improve and enforce regulations than to beat up on particular technologies.

Another tech expert who hasn't a clue about freedoms.

He'd "improve" and enforce whatever regulations are in effect. Where have we seen that before? Oh yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders

> What exactly is the problem here?

I am afraid it'd a waste of time to try to explain.

Re: JetBlue has started using facial recognition instead of boarding passes

#170

Post by neetdeth »

lm28469 wrote: post #165
C1sc0cat wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a rant presumably you would like to have active and passive citizens ?

It sure is a rant, but it's my daily life. > you would like to have active and passive citizens ? No, just informed and non destructive tourism. The number of tourists coming to berlin, for example, doubled in 10 years, the infrastructure almost didn't change in the same time. 3.5 million inhabitants, 14[0] millions annual tourists. Every single month of the year: 40%+ of the population is made of tourists. [0] edit:…

Assuming every one of those overnight stays means two days spent in Berlin, and if they are spread out over the year, that's 175 thousand tourists at any given time, about 5% of the population. Of course they'll congregate in certain locations and certain times of year, but you're overstating the case.

Instead of shaking your fist at airplanes flying overhead, maybe try increasing the hotel tax and cracking down on AirBnBs.

Of course, you'll probably encounter opposition to this because some locals are making a great deal of profit.

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