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Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

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Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#161

Post by OedipusRex »

jimmytucson wrote: post #155
cjw3 wrote: post #18

It’s interesting to compare the Bloomberg article with this one from the South China Morning Post, titled “Alibaba founder Jack Ma says companies forcing staff to work overtime are ‘foolish’”. Two articles reporting on the same statements and drawing completely different conclusions. It’s getting harder to find the truth. [1]: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3006127/alib...

This is the essence of “fake news”. Most people think fake news is reporting false information. But nowadays it’s relatively easy to fact-check something. Much more onerous is selecting facts to report on so as to tell a story that fits an agenda. It’s harder to recognize, and hey—it’s facts! What could go wrong?

What exactly about this is fake news?

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#162

Post by alistairSH »

rqs wrote: post #150
drukenemo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice comments, but may I suggest that you check your spellings before posting? Lots of things I had to interpret what you meant to say based on mispellings.

Sorry, I'm not a native speaker, that may lead to some problem because Chinese grammar can be very different to English. Maybe I should start to use grammarly from now on. Sum up the post: 1. What Jack Ma is trying to do, is equalizing Personal strive and overwork (for him). 2. In China, company have many ways to force employees stay in long hour without literally say so. For example "When boss don't leave, you don't…

I have to assume drunkenemo is trolling because your English is as good as many native speakers (at least when it comes to casual online communication). There are signs you aren't a native speaker, but nothing that makes your post hard to understand or in any way distracting.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#163

Post by alistairSH »

OedipusRex wrote: post #161
jimmytucson wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the essence of “fake news”. Most people think fake news is reporting false information. But nowadays it’s relatively easy to fact-check something. Much more onerous is selecting facts to report on so as to tell a story that fits an agenda. It’s harder to recognize, and hey—it’s facts! What could go wrong?

What exactly about this is fake news?

That's his point - both pieces are factually correct, but give completely opposing interpretations of those facts. It's harder to recognize "fake news" when the "fake" part is heavy editorializing of an otherwise truthful set of news.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#164

Post by bigred100 »

rwallace wrote: post #48
human20190310 wrote: post #25

I'm beginning to suspect that the 996 schedule (and its equivalents in other cultures) aren't actually about productivity; they're about devotion. Devotion isn't something a CEO can explicitly ask for, but a 996 schedule is, so that becomes the expectation even if it actually has a neutral-to-negative impact on productivity. Richard Liu almost made this explicit when he stated that people who didn't adhere to it were…

Your conclusion is absolutely correct. The explanation is that Homo economicus, the economic optimizing agent, is a leaky abstraction on top of a killer ape. In the modern environment, it's easy to forget that our brains did not actually evolve to deal with money, let alone the high-tech infrastructure of a modern corporation. They evolved to dominate other apes on the African savanna. But evolution does not document…

Lately I have the vague opinion that half-baked scientific reasoning and the tendency to come up with evolutionary just so stories is a horrible detriment to modern society. Humanity has come up with a reasonable way to interpret human behavior by human standards through the humanities. I feel content to evaluate other humans by human standards rather than speculating on how he’s actually highly adapted for the African savannah. If he acts like an ape, he belongs in a zoo.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#165

Post by bigred100 »

zorked wrote: post #29
inapis wrote: post #7

I find 12 hours a day to be too much. And 6 days a week is throwing the mental health of a person off a cliff. I’ve frequently found, personally and observing others, that productivity drops after 6h of continuous work especially if it forces you to think a lot (which is pretty much always in software - you still need to apply your brain to connect the plumbing between APIs) Anything after 6h should either be menial…

People in workspaces with crazy work hours pad the remaining hours with meetings, email, going from here to there and back here. Humans only work so many hours a day. Outlier humans who can work more won't waste their talent/superpower at an employer where their extra time isn't compensated.

Agree. The best way to work tons of hours is to spend tons of time on low-effort things that can be presented as difficult or important in meetings.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#166

Post by rqs »

alistairSH wrote: post #162
rqs wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I'm not a native speaker, that may lead to some problem because Chinese grammar can be very different to English. Maybe I should start to use grammarly from now on. Sum up the post: 1. What Jack Ma is trying to do, is equalizing Personal strive and overwork (for him). 2. In China, company have many ways to force employees stay in long hour without literally say so. For example "When boss don't leave, you don't…

I have to assume drunkenemo is trolling because your English is as good as many native speakers (at least when it comes to casual online communication). There are signs you aren't a native speaker, but nothing that makes your post hard to understand or in any way distracting.

Maybe that's because I got my English mode fully warmed up during the editing process. Don't blame drunkenemo :)

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#167

Post by b_tterc_p »

alistairSH wrote: post #163
OedipusRex wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly about this is fake news?

That's his point - both pieces are factually correct, but give completely opposing interpretations of those facts. It's harder to recognize "fake news" when the "fake" part is heavy editorializing of an otherwise truthful set of news.

Fake news is generally understood to be baseless lies. Incorrect or misleading news describes most of all genuine news coverage.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#168

Post by yourbandsucks »

skrebbel wrote: post #78
marcus_holmes wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Journalists making a story more controversial by tailoring which bits of a speech to quote? How incredibly unusual. Oh wait, no. The other thing. The thing about never trusting anything you read, especially if it was written by someone who has something to gain by manipulating your emotions.

What does a badly paid Bloomberg reporter have to gain by making me feel like Jack Ma is a mean person?

Emotional response -> clicks. They need clicks to keep their job.

Re: Jack Ma Again Endorses Extreme Overtime as Furor Rages On

#169

Post by exelius »

acct1771 wrote: post #159
p49k wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of that, the company actually don't need to force it's employees. It just keep giving them tasks which cannot be finished without... This sounds exactly like the accounts of what it’s like to work as an Amazon delivery driver.

Or a drive thru employee. Or an Uber driver trying to make minimum wage. Hm.

But like, if you were more passionate about your job, it would be more rewarding! Maybe not monetarily; but think of all the interesting people you get to talk to as an Uber driver!
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