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No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

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Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#161
post #45

Similar concerns should be made for Thunderbolt devices, which have direct PCIe access - much more low-level and dangerous than USB could be. The only system I've seen implement this is Gnome3 - it has a section in its system preferences for configuring Thunderbolt devices[0] and the Bolt daemon.[1] [0] https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/Whiteboards/ThunderboltAccess [1] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px…

Apparently windows has this too: https://www.startech.com/faq/thunderbolt-3-authentication-po.... Not sure whether that's the default behavior or how to enable it.

Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#162

It's a severe discredit to the major operating system vendors that plugging in a USB stick can still compromise a system. If a USB device identifies itself as a keyboard, the system shouldn't accept its keystrokes until that keyboard has typed the user's login password (EDIT: or the user explicitly authorizes the device using a different keyboard). If it identifies itself as a storage device, the filesystem driver sh…

Sure, you can fix it so devices don't appear as unauthorized keyboards... you still leave yourself open to a near infinite number of other attacks. What stops me from creating a USB device that appears as a storage medium, yet contains a transmitter which slowly exfiltrates any data written? What about a USB-powered microphone or camera posing as a flash drive? Hell, it would be of great value to just have an softwar…

>Am I the only one old enough to remember 'disk bombs' from the 90s where you filled 3.5" floppies with paste made from strike anywhere match heads so when the disk spun up it melted?

Damn dude that really worked? I remember reading about it in the anarchist cookbook but didn't go through with the effort after getting thoroughly punked re: smoking banana peels and trying out pressure points on older kids

Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can fix it so devices don't appear as unauthorized keyboards... you still leave yourself open to a near infinite number of other attacks. What stops me from creating a USB device that appears as a storage medium, yet contains a transmitter which slowly exfiltrates any data written? What about a USB-powered microphone or camera posing as a flash drive? Hell, it would be of great value to just have an softwar…

I suspect you're arguing from the point of view of a determined attacker against a specific target, in which case, I agree -- there's an infinite number of different attacks you can try, with the caveat that any failed attempt is possibly going to tip your target off and make them up their opsec game, becoming a much more difficult target. I took the OP to be talking more about general case. Random people plugging in…

> I suspect you're arguing from the point of view of a determined attacker against a specific target

Not necessarily a specific target(although maybe in a sense). If I were, say, the Chinese intelligence apparatus, I'd be sprinkling exfiltration devices around D.C., military bases, and defense contractor offices(especially the small ones, who don't always seem to have their shit together).

You can fit a lot of smarts in a small form factor these days. I could, with the budget of an intelligence agency, cheaply mass produce USB storage controllers which only activate when specific files of interest(say, OrCAD schematics, or source code) are saved to the device. I could sprinkle them around, or even just strongarm one of my country's manufacturers so that the bug goes into wide distribution. Now I use sniffer vans, like were used to execute the Tempest attacks against military bases in the 80s, to find my beacons and exfiltrate.

GSM modems might be expensive, although it would be a great way to get data out. You could also add GPS and use a small geofencing database to activate when you're within a target radius.

Keep in mind this is just the musings of a bored idiot(me). I suspect an intelligence agency could find more useful things to do with a USB stick.

Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can fix it so devices don't appear as unauthorized keyboards... you still leave yourself open to a near infinite number of other attacks. What stops me from creating a USB device that appears as a storage medium, yet contains a transmitter which slowly exfiltrates any data written? What about a USB-powered microphone or camera posing as a flash drive? Hell, it would be of great value to just have an softwar…

>Am I the only one old enough to remember 'disk bombs' from the 90s where you filled 3.5" floppies with paste made from strike anywhere match heads so when the disk spun up it melted? Damn dude that really worked? I remember reading about it in the anarchist cookbook but didn't go through with the effort after getting thoroughly punked re: smoking banana peels and trying out pressure points on older kids

It just made a little fire, it didn't "explode". It would melt your floppy drive and make it useless but wouldn't come close to doing enough damage to hurt anyone unless they had their face a few inches from the front of the PC.

Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#167
post #160

It's a severe discredit to the major operating system vendors that plugging in a USB stick can still compromise a system. If a USB device identifies itself as a keyboard, the system shouldn't accept its keystrokes until that keyboard has typed the user's login password (EDIT: or the user explicitly authorizes the device using a different keyboard). If it identifies itself as a storage device, the filesystem driver sh…

> If a USB device identifies itself as a keyboard, the system shouldn't accept its keystrokes until that keyboard has typed the user's login password Probably easier/safer to display a random number on-screen and then ask the user to retype it into the device. I figure numbers are less likely to run into problems when the keyboard isn't US-standard QWERTY. For more paranoia/portability, show the user a repeating rhyt…

Then in a walk-by attack the attacker can just type the number or play the game. Hopefully they wouldn't know the user's password.

Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Am I the only one old enough to remember 'disk bombs' from the 90s where you filled 3.5" floppies with paste made from strike anywhere match heads so when the disk spun up it melted? Damn dude that really worked? I remember reading about it in the anarchist cookbook but didn't go through with the effort after getting thoroughly punked re: smoking banana peels and trying out pressure points on older kids

It just made a little fire, it didn't "explode". It would melt your floppy drive and make it useless but wouldn't come close to doing enough damage to hurt anyone unless they had their face a few inches from the front of the PC.

Unless the strike surface also contained an accelerant, as well as the igniter...:)

Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#169
post #151
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yubikeys can pretend to be keyboards to type your password. It's a simple way to get maximum compatibility for a hardware key. I imagine there's other legitimate use-cases for non-keyboards to act like keyboards. Still, requiring one to type a password in a newly connected keyboard is a pretty good idea as long as it's a configuration option. I imagine you'd also like something similar for the mouse. Maybe having to…

You only need to authenticate a device once, when you first acquire it, or after it is tainted due to loss of physical control. This is how Bluetooth works today.

Maybe I'm wrong, but there's currently no sort of authentication protocol for devices in USB, right? I (and I think jimrandomh too) was thinking of USB as-is. Something that OSes can do right now without having to wait for whoever controls the USB spec. As it is, how can an OS know that the mouse it sees on waking up is the same mouse that was connected before it slept or powered off? I don't think there's any sort of cryptographic authentication specified for USB devices.

Re: No one, not even the Secret Service, should randomly plug in a strange USB stick

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but there's a lot more going on here than "had a USB stick". > She was caught by the Secret Service with four cellphones, a laptop, cash, an external hard drive, a signals detector to spot hidden cameras, and a thumb drive.

That's exactly how I travel to tech-related summits around the world, and I have nothing to do with espionage I assure you. I have 3 cellphones - one private (family calls, face time etc), one CDMA phone and one separate GSM for the most of EU countries. And external SSD drive with all my important backups and projects that would take forever to download off of DropBox. And yes - recently even cheap signal detector,…

Yup, I travel with a laptop, 2 phones, thumb drives, baggies of different currencies, random mysterious circuit boards .. and I'm not a spy either
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