Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#161

Post by stefan_ » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 9:38 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #117

Bayart wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>which is the reason there are very few phones that can run actually run mainline (real) Linux. You mean the drivers not being in the Linux Kernel/hard to port ? because I have a very hard time believing most smartphones couldn't run the Linux kernel, provided it's compiled to whatever architecture and the drivers are there.

Android Linux is quite different from upstream Linux, specially after Project Treble. Now it looks more like a pseudo-mikrokernel, with drivers running on their own processes, talking via Android IPC with the kernel layer. Also it has a much more security knobs turned on as mainline, and many features trimmed down that are irrelevant to Android userspace.

Treble is just another layer of abstraction on top of HALs and more binder use. Android HALs don't replace kernel drivers and so it's still the same distance from mikrokernel as it ever was, and neither did Treble further the split from mainline Linux.

If anything, Android 8 reduced the gap to mainline with switching e.g. to DRM synchronization fences.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#162

Post by Shebanator » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

mateo1 wrote: post #13

A closed-source Google-developed OS for feature phones. Obviously it's the best spend DoD money so far. Just 20 millions. You need to track poor people too.

KaiOS is not a google-developed OS. kaiostech is its own company with offices in several countries. Google gave them financing but it isn't fair to them to paint them as some sort of vassal - Google funds lots of things.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#163

Post by Shebanator » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

auslander wrote: post #38

robk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 2 years they use this phone what value is there possibly to be gained??? It's virtually zero value to anyone.

They'll keep their Google accounts, because of emails and logins on other sites, and use them on their next devices, keeping data flowing and attributed. Hell. They would even browse Internet using Chrome signed in to their G accounts, giving away browsing history (all their secret dreams, interests that even closest people don't know about)

Users on these phones generally don't have google accounts. Of course some kinds of Assistant commands won't work without such an account, e.g. scheduling appointments in your google calendar.

And these phones don't run Chrome at all.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#164

Post by gcb0 » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

angott wrote: post #137

cronix wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of funny that PWA was Jobs original vision for iOS apps with HTML5, before they came up with the walled garden cash cow approach. > “The full Safari engine is inside of iPhone. And so, you can write amazing Web 2.0 and Ajax apps that look exactly and behave exactly like apps on the iPhone. And these apps can integrate perfectly with iPhone services. And guess what? There’s no SDK that you need! You’ve got e…

PWAs make sense today, but back then, they just came too early in the game. The iPhone only had EDGE (2G) networking, it was painfully slow both in terms of throughput and latency. Each HTTP request would take ~300-500ms under optimal cell coverage. Additionally, unlike modern PWAs, web-apps back then had persistence for data only, so you had to reload the entire application over the network at each launch. People ba…

that doesn't make any sense. All the limitations you mention also applied to apps.

the whole problem is that apple shipped native apps with tons of skeumorphism and animations, so all js frameworks for webapps spend all their efforts to simulate "slide animation on page change" instead of working on hiding the ajax latency or using local storage better.

and in the end, everyone just saw $$$ in using the closed apps from the store.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#165

Post by ekimekim » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

mrweasel wrote: post #127

I don't understand why the Google Assistant has to be thrown in. Beside me not liking the idea of Google Assistant processing my request, I don't really believe that it's a feature that many need or even request. Of cause I'm in a non-English speaking country, so that may change the usage, but I don't know anyone who uses Google Assistant, Siri or Cortana and only two people who use Alexa, which technically isn't eve…

Google assistant is the reason the phone is so cheap. The same reason a smart TV is cheaper than a dumb one, and why most of those "home assistant" things are cheap. You're not paying with money, you're paying by allowing access for data harvesting.

The same phone without Google Assistant would be better, sure. But it'd also be much more expensive - if it was allowed to exist at all.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#166

Post by fabrice_d » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

raghava wrote: post #78

KaiOS offers a decent package. But unfortunately, there are many things missing yet. - decent crypto base - decent set of apps (with contraints on user/input interfaces) [ as of now, there isn't an email app available yet! ] And pretty much every phone vendor/TelCo is building a walled-garden and an appstore on their own, considering the licensing possibilities offered by KaiOS. Every TelCo will block sideloading of…

There is an email app in the set of core apps. If it's not in the device you got, talk to the carrier/OEM who may have chosen to remove it when customizing their build.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#167

Post by fabrice_d » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 11:24 PM UTC

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #72

JioPhone, which runs on KaiOS has managed to bring WhatsApp to KaiOS[1]. That was the most requested feature on JioPhone 1, when it was released & people were ready to put more money into next cheapest android smartphone to have it. Now, WhatsApp is available on both JioPhone1 & JioPhone2. Obviously it is packaged standalone version of WhatsApp web. WhatsApp team has been very successful in bring consistent performan…

The "regular" WhatsApp web needs the app to run on your Android or iOS device - it merely establishes a tunnel to get everything from the phone.

The KaiOS version was built from scratch.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#168

Post by fabrice_d » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 11:26 PM UTC

oneowl wrote: post #7

Very nice project. KaiOS also runs on jio phones and they are selling really well in India. Besides 4g these phones also have wifi support. Kai os phones are the only feature phones(I know of) that provide wifi capabilities. By the way I've got a question for people who've used Kai OS / firefox os. To use google apps like youtube/ maps etc do you need to log in like in android?

No you don't have to be logged in. That provides you the same experience as when you're not be logged in from a web browser.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#169

Post by meruru » Sat, Apr 06, 2019, 11:28 PM UTC

Arelius wrote: post #143

meruru wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not run Lineage OS then?

I dunno, switching from a phone with a pre-installed Google maintained OS to a custom rom of a Google maintained OS isn't exactally fully cutting Google out.

Lineage is Android sans Google. It's exactly what you want if you want to cut Google out.

Re: Linux-based 4G phones with Google Assistant sold for $7 in Indonesia

#170

Post by BoorishBears » Sun, Apr 07, 2019, 12:06 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #125

BoorishBears wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebOS was ahead of its time.

Is , not "was." My LG television runs WebOS.

The WebOS that runs in your television is very unlike the WebOS that was.

That ecosystem, interface, and community no longer exist.

-

Also your comment doesn’t really make sense.

Something that currently exists can still have been ahead of its time. My comment isn’t an indication it doesn’t exist.