A guide to difficult conversations • Hacker News Board

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#161

Post by leesalminen » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

freyir wrote: post #157

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

I've often seen families get particularly hostile when an in-law involves him or herself with the death or illness of a parent. It doesn't matter whether you're right or what approach you use. They're likely in one of the worst times of their life, and they're not going to be receptive to negotiation tactics. Why is your wife not having this conversation?

Unfortunately they’re both terrible to each other. Always have been, likely always will be. Even in relatively stressless situations they end up at each other’s throats in seconds.

The family (not my wife) asked me to talk to my brother-in-law about this because nobody else could get through to him.

I totally agree I’m not the right person to get in the middle. There’s just nobody else willing or able to.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#162

Post by maxxxxx » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

This is a family issue so it would have been your wife’s job to deal with this. As an in-law you are often an outsider when it comes to these issues.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#163

Post by arandr0x » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

It's easier for care teams in this situation to speak to one person. I suppose your wife (if she felt up to the task) could have asked if your brother needed relief, but 21 hours in an emergency is a very long time and being the only one on deck for 21 hours is a very stressful circumstance.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#164

Post by freyir » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #161

freyir wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often seen families get particularly hostile when an in-law involves him or herself with the death or illness of a parent. It doesn't matter whether you're right or what approach you use. They're likely in one of the worst times of their life, and they're not going to be receptive to negotiation tactics. Why is your wife not having this conversation?

Unfortunately they’re both terrible to each other. Always have been, likely always will be. Even in relatively stressless situations they end up at each other’s throats in seconds. The family (not my wife) asked me to talk to my brother-in-law about this because nobody else could get through to him. I totally agree I’m not the right person to get in the middle. There’s just nobody else willing or able to.

That's a tough situation. It's good that you tried.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#165

Post by kodz4 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:22 PM UTC

MadWombat wrote: post #99

kodz4 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes time. It's only after you have a few big unrecoverable screwups in life, will some of this stuff make more sense. You are better off being aware and not understanding its value, than not being aware at all of NVC. Once you hit an issue where you find yourself automatically avoiding things, attacking someone or defending yourself and producing all kinds of misery, just remind yourself that there is another to…

I am not sure whether you are using NVC well or not, but this comment makes you sound like a pompous ass. I suppose thats what you learn by picking up the book you mentioned.

Clarify. What didn't you like about my comment?

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#166

Post by leesalminen » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

glitchc wrote: post #146

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

There may be deep-seated and long-standing resentments playing out here, due to insecurities and perceived differences in status. It's possible your brother-in-law has also never held a position of power or authority. No amount of conversation on your part may fix it as a large portion of the problem is the source (i.e. you). It may be best to back off and let your wife handle it. He's her brother after all. Work thr…

Of course we tried that first. My wife tried, their uncle tried, their cousins tried. I was the last resort.

I agree that it’s best now to back off. There’s nothing else I can do. It hurts me to see my wife in additional pain because she’s not allowed to talk to the medical staff herself. She has medical training and is likely to understand the medical “Mumbo Jumbo” better than anyone else in the family.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#167

Post by noobiemcfoob » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

chroma wrote: post #156

Calling it "nonviolent communication" is a brilliant marketing move, as it implies that not conversing in this manner is violent. I've seen this style many times in my career, and it always comes off as patronizing. It also tends to be used far more often than recommended. Instead of being deployed in difficult conversations, it gets used in every one-on-one. My guess is that NVC ends up like power posing[1]: pop-psy…

NVC perhaps is often employed in situations that don't quite require that degree of formulation, but when parties have been bickering so much that even simple "Hello" courtesies get interpreted as passive aggression, the structure of NVC allows the building of communication.

Anything that gets and keeps both parties talking in these situations, even by marginal degrees, is worth everything.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#168

Post by aok1425 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

My friend had recommended to me a book called Difficult Conversations: https://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-...

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#169

Post by logfromblammo » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

waylandsmithers wrote: post #113

tyingq wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"how you recognize when you are being patronizing" That's a good point. I'm fairly adept at recognizing when someone is trying to negotiate with me based on some kind of taught methodology. Because most of what's taught is counter to how you would do it naturally...thus it stands out. Once you recognize it, the natural reaction is to feel like you're being manipulated with some technique.

I think part of it is that the observation needs to be genuinely objective rather than veiled evaluation. For example, when I did tech support I would occasionally get chat messages from my supervisor along the lines of: "Hey, I see that you closed out Ticket #XYZ without any resolution or response sent to the requester." (waits for response) (waits for response) (waits for response) ...and it would make me furious,…

"Is there something you want me to do?" is a slightly less hostile way of saying "Get to the point."

"The petitioner did not make a request upon which relief can be granted." might set off a snark detector, and "The ticketing system already automatically notifies the requester that their ticket has been closed." might inadvertently imply that the supervisor does not know how to do their job.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#170

Post by leesalminen » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 4:26 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #162

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

This is a family issue so it would have been your wife’s job to deal with this. As an in-law you are often an outsider when it comes to these issues.

I agree in principle and I hate being put in the middle of this. I responded to some other similar comments on this sub-thread but the short of it is that I was asked to do this by the family (not my wife) because nobody else can get through to him.