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8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

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Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#161
post #64
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talent is nowhere near evenly distributed. As this boy shows.

Evenly distributed not in the sense that everyone has an equal amount, but that every way you can cut up demographics (age, race, sex, nationality) will have the same bell curve of talent. But that is not necessarily so with opportunity.

“Not everyone can be a chess champion but a chess champion can come from anywhere”.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#162

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

>I know a fair amount of chess prodigies from back in the day, including some who are still active and top players on the professional circuit. To this day I have not met a single one who didn’t have to deal with major adversity during childhood - broken home, missing or abusive/alcoholic parent, etc.

I used to play professionally at Marshall chess club in NYC and one of the grandmasters there went rummaging through our bag for something to eat.

A common joke in that club: What's the difference between a Chess Grandmaster and a pizza?

A pizza can feed a family of four.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter-counter argument is that not giving someone your money isn't "punishing" them, it's just retaining consent over your finances which everyone should have a right to do, without shame.

How much of "your" money is an indirect result of previous generations' sacrifice so that you can have a better life?

[flagged]

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently read Searching for Bobby Fisher and Joshua Waitzkin's childhood seemed intense, but not broken. Would you consider him an exception or is that level of intensity itself dysfunctional in your view? I do agree that integrity and sportsmanship - along with the game's beauty - should be placed higher than defeating opponents and that it often isn't. At some point this may just be the nature of competing at the…

Don’t forget that Searching for Bobby Fisher was written by Waitzkin’s father and almost certainly is bending the reality to the story he wants to tell/image he wants to project.

'The art of learning' is written by Josh himself and didn't leave me with an abusive childhood impression.

Josh seems very balanced, it's a great book as well, highly recommended.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can we, as a society, support our future during its most vulnerable time (childhood)? How is it possible that we still have homeless children in a country with so much wealth? The argument goes like this: > Because why should I care for someone else's child and why should I shell out money because someone decided to have children even though they shouldn't have ?

The counter-argument goes like this: Prudent or not, the deed is done; the child is here now and has real needs now. Get over punishing the child for being born and do the right thing.

Perhaps, but at even the most basic understanding of economic incentives you have to see how it's not that simple if the parent is still in the care of their pre-existing guardian.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#166

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

> I hope his gift brings him joy and success,

Not sure about that, but it might have brought him a home if all the attention that led to the gofundme account pans out, and it doesn't get stolen or frittered away.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counter-counter argument is that not giving someone your money isn't "punishing" them, it's just retaining consent over your finances which everyone should have a right to do, without shame.

How much of "your" money is an indirect result of previous generations' sacrifice so that you can have a better life?

I don't think previous generations were particularly altruistic toward the poor. In general people "sacrifice" for their family or themselves, not for others.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#168

As someone who had the unfortunate label of “prodigy” applied to me in my youth (chess master at age 10), I’d like to offer a perspective. It almost goes without saying, but huge respect to the kid for being able to persevere through massive adversity and achieve such a result. What I want to suggest without hopefully ruining the “feel good” party is that the adversity and the success here aren’t just a striking coin…

It's not unlikely that people who are successful have adverse childhoods (even when the adversity is not directly related to the activity of their success unlike yours) because it's a lot easier to survive the sheer terror of being 1) a child and 2) reminded that you have neither power nor security day in and day out with the dopamine rush of being the very, very best at something. It builds resilience.

But I don't think we should change how we reward these kids, because in a number of cases that reward keeps them alive, and outcomes from adverse childhood experiences that are not obsessive competitiveness and huge success in a specific area are typically much, much worse.

Yes "normal" people often have trouble seeing this (& it's frustrating as a suffering kid, that adults who are very much not suffering are using your story and taking pride in your accomplishment, as though it's theirs also, not knowing what you narrowly escaped to get there), but it may bring worse outcomes if they did (for example I would never tell my child that Little Johnny is better at basketball than they are because they play every night till 10 because that's all they have to do until their mom gets home and on the courts no one beats them up, even if it's true, because I'm not confident that my "normal" kid would use the information in a way that's wise and kind).

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#169
He only won his age group (K-3), for kids at his age. And there were kids with a rating of 1400-1700 already. Everybody knows that young immigrants play much stronger chess than US kids. So not really newsworthy at all. It would have been if he would have won the real New York State Championship, such as the young Japanese boy Harimoto who beat all the world champions right and left aged when he was still 15. (table tennis). Also an immigrant (from China). In a much harsher and openly racist society.

Re: 8-Year-Old Refugee Wins New York State Championship

#170
post #64
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talent is nowhere near evenly distributed. As this boy shows.

Evenly distributed not in the sense that everyone has an equal amount, but that every way you can cut up demographics (age, race, sex, nationality) will have the same bell curve of talent. But that is not necessarily so with opportunity.

What reason do you have to believe that?
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