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China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

bloomberg.com

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Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#161

Post by benj111 »

paganel wrote: post #154
benj111 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Irish Times article is highly critical of the West doing the same today. What's the difference between that and the Yale 360 article linked further above? Edit: In response to your edit. Are you sure that isn't native woodland? I would expect the higher reaches of a mountain to be pine trees. The article mentions Stradivarius, violins are made of spruce amongst other woods. Plus those forests are obviously somewh…

> Are you sure that isn't native woodland? Hard to tell 100% without being present on site but that's my guess, yeah. I've very rarely seen "natural" forests being completely wiped out like this as a result of strong winds, the worst that can happen is some older trees being knocked down here and there, but, as I said, I've not yet seen "natural" forests being completely knocked down as a result of one wind-storm. I…

What would you class as "natural" forests?

I doubt theres a forest in Europe that hasn't been touched by man.

Venice would have been very selective about the wood it would have cut for ships etc, you can't just cut any old wood. It needs to be knot free, be straight, or have just the right curvature. They weren't clear felling vast swathes, then replanting. I'm not even sure the was conscious planting at all.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#162

Post by icebraining »

austincheney wrote: post #95
desdiv wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's simply not true. It started out as a factoid, but got jumbled into nonsense by a game of telephone: 1. True: 16 of the world’s largest ships produce as much _sulfur_ pollution as all the world’s cars.[1] 2. False: "How 16 ships create as much pollution as all the cars in the world", headline from Daily Mail.[2] 3. False: "world's 6 largest shipping tankers produce more CO2 than all the world's personal vehicles…

> Separate studies suggest that maritime carbon dioxide emissions are not only higher than previously thought, but could rise by as much as 75% in the next 15 to 20 years if world trade continues to grow and no action is taken. The figures from the oil giant BP, which owns 50 tankers, and researchers at the Institute for Physics and Atmosphere in Wessling, Germany reveal that annual emissions from shipping range betw…

Before you wrote the world's passenger vehicles, not the US'.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#163

Post by tialaramex »

spongeb00b wrote: post #153

Electric buses seem to be fairly common in UK city centres. I first saw one in London about 4 years ago - it was surreal when walking past a typical red double decker at a bus stop and it just glided away with the faintest whirr. I’m all for buses and taxis turning electric to reduce the diesel fumes in cities.

Gliding away silently is often a hybrid. London does own electric buses, but mostly it has hybrids (and lots of conventional diesel buses).

If you were on the bus its engine probably started a minute later, it's still an improvement, and I assume that environmentally not spewing fumes at bus stops helps a little with local air quality, but it's not usually an electric bus.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#164

Post by detaro »

benj111 wrote: post #161
paganel wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure that isn't native woodland? Hard to tell 100% without being present on site but that's my guess, yeah. I've very rarely seen "natural" forests being completely wiped out like this as a result of strong winds, the worst that can happen is some older trees being knocked down here and there, but, as I said, I've not yet seen "natural" forests being completely knocked down as a result of one wind-storm. I…

What would you class as "natural" forests? I doubt theres a forest in Europe that hasn't been touched by man. Venice would have been very selective about the wood it would have cut for ships etc, you can't just cut any old wood. It needs to be knot free, be straight, or have just the right curvature. They weren't clear felling vast swathes, then replanting. I'm not even sure the was conscious planting at all.

The UN has a definition for "Intact Forest Landscapes". Little of those are left in Europe, the majority in Russia and Scandinavia. Western/Central Europe has only tiny slivers of any.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#165

Post by m0zg »

Sabinus wrote: post #134
m0zg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 66 billion trees planted so far News in 10-20 years: massive wildfires decimate Africa. It's pointless and dangerous to have more trees than the waterbed can support. California re-learns this lesson nearly every year.

I assume there were many more trees in the same watershed before man chopped them down for pasture and cities.

Yes, and they burned quite readily and frequently without harming humans. But humans have this peculiar aversion to dying in a fire, and they use tons of groundwater for themselves and for irrigation as well.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#166

Post by benj111 »

detaro wrote: post #164
benj111 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you class as "natural" forests? I doubt theres a forest in Europe that hasn't been touched by man. Venice would have been very selective about the wood it would have cut for ships etc, you can't just cut any old wood. It needs to be knot free, be straight, or have just the right curvature. They weren't clear felling vast swathes, then replanting. I'm not even sure the was conscious planting at all.

The UN has a definition for "Intact Forest Landscapes". Little of those are left in Europe, the majority in Russia and Scandinavia. Western/Central Europe has only tiny slivers of any.

I'm confused by your point.

"Intact Forest Landscapes" seems to exclude any human made forest. So are you against all human planting of forests?

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#167

Post by Nanite »

bobthepanda wrote: post #86
evolve2k wrote: post #61

This points out a new opportunity. Why stop at China for electric busses (yes they are probably manufacturing them locally)? Cities are seeming increasingly more able to be proactive than countries. Encourage local cities to one by one electrify the bus network and this effect goes global. It’s obvious tangible action that citizens can demand and mayors can visibly deliver. Game for those playing at home, do a search…

Initial indicators seem to be that they're not ready for prime time. Albuquerque returned BYD buses because of problems with range not performing as advertised. https://www.abqjournal.com/1246094/abq-rejecting-all-byd-art... Battery-electrics still have major issues with range; buses cannot last a full day on a single charge, and midday charging takes too long. And if it gets cold or the route has hills, you're compl…

Evidence to the contrary:

http://www.vdlbuscoach.com/News/News-Library/2018/Europa-s-g...

I use these on a regular basis, for urban environments, electric busses combined with overhead superchargers at the end-of-line terminals work really well.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#168

Post by Blackbeard_ »

tialaramex wrote: post #163
spongeb00b wrote: post #153

Electric buses seem to be fairly common in UK city centres. I first saw one in London about 4 years ago - it was surreal when walking past a typical red double decker at a bus stop and it just glided away with the faintest whirr. I’m all for buses and taxis turning electric to reduce the diesel fumes in cities.

Gliding away silently is often a hybrid. London does own electric buses, but mostly it has hybrids (and lots of conventional diesel buses). If you were on the bus its engine probably started a minute later, it's still an improvement, and I assume that environmentally not spewing fumes at bus stops helps a little with local air quality, but it's not usually an electric bus.

Yeah, right on.

To put some numbers behind that it seems only ~1% of London's buses are electric whereas about a third are hybrid.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/bus-fleet-audit-31-march-2018.pdf

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#169

Post by detaro »

benj111 wrote: post #166
detaro wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN has a definition for "Intact Forest Landscapes". Little of those are left in Europe, the majority in Russia and Scandinavia. Western/Central Europe has only tiny slivers of any.

I'm confused by your point. "Intact Forest Landscapes" seems to exclude any human made forest. So are you against all human planting of forests?

I was providing data for your

> I doubt theres a forest in Europe that hasn't been touched by man.

Re: China's e-buses dent oil demand more than electric cars do

#170

Post by johnchristopher »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #84

By this logic, we should "forget" all the go green initiatives because China (and Africa) are building a "Green Wall" to stop their respective deserts from widening. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/04/china-great-gree... I say this is mainly about China because Africa has modified their green wall project and instead of planting billion trees from East coast to West coast, they are helping communities to thr…

From all the comments under your post I can totally be confident teraforming is an option if we ever need to get off the planet. /s (as in /sarcasm and /scared)
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