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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#161

Post by notacoward »

titzer wrote: post #128
cageface wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citations provided in original comment. Take it up with national geo if you have isssues with it.

Meanwhile, from the other link (which also has numbers in the 10s of thousands of tons, not millions): "Cutting down on the amount of plastics we buy and learning to use this tricky material sensibly is still one of the most effective things we can do to live responsibly, help the planet, and inspire others to do the same. To find out how you can help make a change, check out One Green Planet’s #CrushPlastic campaign…

Those statements are not mutually exclusive. Cutting down on the plastics we buy might still be one of the most effective things we as consumers can do even if fishing nets are an even bigger problem. Just like buying low-emissions cars might be an effective thing to do as a consumer even if most pollutants are emitted by industry.

The fact is that we need to address both fishing and consumer use. Over-focusing on either one could be seen as distracting from the other, but it's not particularly helpful to bash other environmentally aware people over it. The problem is the people who don't even know or care.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#162

Post by legulere »

cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

That was just one survey in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. At different places it looks completely different.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#163

Post by Djvacto »

close04 wrote: post #131
cageface wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4.5 million Jains in India would be happy to discuss this issue, just for starters. The world is full of healthy vegans and vegetarians.

You are omitting the fact that genetics plays a huge role in the success and efficiency of your diet. More than a third of East Asians have a deficiency in one of the enzymes involved in the breakdown of alcohol (aldehyde dehydrogenase). They cannot properly metabolize it. Inuits have mutations in genes that code for enzymes that desaturate carbon-carbon bonds in fatty acids. This means they can handle diets that are…

I think you're being downvoted because of the "Withdrawn statements" comment. It looks like this has been posted multiple times in the same thread, but the statement was not withdrawn.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#164

Post by notacoward »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #9
eecc wrote: post #3

Just like Climate Change, oceanic plastic pollution is a case of Tragedy of the commons. I can separate my waste and recycle as much as I want (and I do!) but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. This is nothing that can be solved with personal initiative and responsibility; it requires international regulation and enforcement. There’…

I disagree. Tragedy of the Commons is a situation that is about the management of wildlife and natural resources for the purposes of maximizing yield, with the lesson being regulated consumption results in maximal natural harvest. Pollution is just a negative economic externality, or consequence of an action that is unseen by the participants, where more pollution is always worse. Unfortunately, no one owns the ocean…

> Unfortunately, no one owns the oceans

i.e. it's part of the commons. It has often been used as an example of such, because despoiling a resource still reduces supply just like direct depletion does.

> the normal ways for resolving externalities don't work without an aggrieved property owner

That is exactly what TotC is about. Even if one could split hairs about what's TotC vs. some other kind of externality, the fact remains that the dynamics are the same. In light of your own last sentence, do you disagree with GP's point that regulation is the necessary answer?

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#165

Post by notacoward »

vfc1 wrote: post #108

The problem is that micro-plastics are eaten by the fish and end up in our plate. It gets worse because pollutants in fish bioaccumulate a lot (fish eats smaller fish, gets eaten by larger fish etc.). Fish high in the food chain like salmon have a lot higher concentration of these pollutants, to the point that it's not even recommended food for pregnant women anymore. Farmed fish also creates bioaccumulation, because…

> The problem is that micro-plastics are eaten by the fish and end up in our plate.

I think you meant to say that's a problem. There are others, even if that one looms largest for you.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#166

Post by Djvacto »

saagarjha wrote: post #63
cageface wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy, and meat & fish are very resource intensive. We're better off redirecting all the resources we currently waste trying to feed 8 billion people this way into sustainable, plant-based diets anyway.

As much as it would be great to get everyone on plant-based diets, it's not going to happen anytime soon. So I guess, for the environment at least, fish is the best we can do until then?

It doesn't have to be all or nothing! My wife has been vegetarian since I've known her, and vegan for a year and a half or so, and I never fully stopped eating meat until about the same time she went vegan. Before that, what happened to my diet was a reduction in the amount of meat consumed, and (for unrelated health-reasons), the cutting out of most red meat (I started with pork, and then barely ate red meat for a couple years) and shortly before starting to eat a vegetarian diet, I started only eating meat when we ate out (which is maybe 2-4 times a month for us). A few close friends of ours actively try to cut out red meat on most weeknights, for example. Some other friends simply try to incorporate vegetarian/vegan substitutes once a week, or other similar amounts.

Whether your concerns are environmental, for health reasons, or about the ethical treatment of animals, you can adjust your diet as much or as little as you want and still have some sort of impact. Just like you don't have to sell your car and bike to work every day in order to cut down on your footprint by, say, biking to the nearby stores instead of driving.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#167

Post by notacoward »

hbarka wrote: post #7

Why hasn’t Amazon, Costco, or Walmart used their clout to effect a positive change? Have you seen all the plastic and unnecessary packaging in the goods they sell. The size of the packaging relative to the actual product is so ridiculous sometimes.

> Why hasn’t Amazon, Costco, or Walmart used their clout to effect a positive change?

That question practically answers itself. It's all about the money, and "using their clout to effect a positive change" would be less profitable.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#169

Post by notacoward »

gpmcadam wrote: post #112

This is a terrible thing for a creature to go through. How common are cases like this, or is this more of a one-off?

Not uncommon at all. Every organization that has anything to do with marine rescue (including pelagic or shore birds) has to deal with this kind of thing routinely.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#170

Post by dajohnson89 »

ehnto wrote: post #56
cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

a lot of the fish products I buy mention that it's "wild caught". do people really have a problem with eating farmed fish? I wish "farm-raised" were a label, so I can support more sustainably sourced fish.
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