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Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

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Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#161

Post by dalke »

URSpider94 wrote: post #130

Others have hinted at this, but when I read this story, I had a big "HUH?" moment. I just returned into the USA last week at SFO, and I can assure you that I didn't go through any kind of security screening upon re-entering the USA. The USA, unlike many other countries, requires that you clear out through Customs at your first point of entry. This is an operational issue, because after that, you are mixed with domest…

Atlanta airport, for example, is one of several US airports which weren't designed with the current security policies in mind. International arrivals occur at the furthest terminal from the exit, and in order for passengers to get to the exit they must take the shuttle car system or walk, and both are inside the "sterile" area of the airport.

I sent a letter to the TSA last week asking about the legality of this search. Can a passenger just after existing customs and immigration decline further screening, and if so, how? If not, when is it presumed that the passenger gave consent to the search and what level of search was consented to?

I'm curious as to what their answer will be.

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#162

Post by GrandMasterBirt »

acabal wrote: post #23
swombat wrote: post #9

In the 1500's a man called Étienne de la Boétie wrote, in a then-inflammatory "Discourse on Voluntary Servitude": Obviously there is no need of fighting to overcome this single tyrant, for he is automatically defeated if the country refuses consent to its own enslavement: it is not necessary to deprive him of anything, but simply to give him nothing; there is no need that the country make an effort to do anything for…

A nice quote, but we've already given the TSA a lot. Now it's a fight to get it back. Hopefully it's not too late.

We're not fighting back. The point of the quote is that power comes from the people. If the people don't give the tyrant anything then the tyrant is powerless. As long as the Tyrant knows that if he shoots at us, we shoot back, he can demand and demand and we give nothing and thus he becomes moot.

Same with the TSA. We need a 100% national opt-out day. Not scanners. I mean same statement as the guy made. EVERYONE. The airlines will go nuts as most their passengers will be missing from the flights. Or something to that extent. Its not fighting back, its just refusal to give them power. And I bet we can ask for refunds. Nowhere on the ticket does it say that a delay in the airport due to constitutional rights violations warrants a no-refund.

Just like with 9/11 now is the same issue and we must handle it as Americans, like we did threats before it. Never surrender even an ounce of freedom, they will take our freedom from our cold dead hands only.

I have to quote Franklin on this one "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#163

Post by GrandMasterBirt »

brown9-2 wrote: post #123
olefoo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about disbanding it as a waste of tax money, and as an unnecessary institution ill-suited to being part of a society dedicated to the idea of individual liberties?

If the TSA is disbanded, then how do you suggest handling airport security? Who is in charge of it and who is responsible?

How about REAL security, like the Isreilies implemented? People get through the biggest of airports in 30 or so minutes, no invasive screenings, the worst you will get is a metal detector sweep and an xray of your belongings.

Israel has good security, better than we have, for longer, with less tech, and no liberties violated, and people get through the airport faster. Wait, its cheaper too. Shit with all the cards stacked in their favor we look like idiots not at least modeling security after them. Sure we can improve on it, lets catch up first then 1-up em.

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#164

Post by epo »

brown9-2 wrote: post #123
olefoo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about disbanding it as a waste of tax money, and as an unnecessary institution ill-suited to being part of a society dedicated to the idea of individual liberties?

If the TSA is disbanded, then how do you suggest handling airport security? Who is in charge of it and who is responsible?

Look at the rest of the world, they've been doing airport security in a reasonably civilised manner since the Palestinians and Cubans started hijacking back in the 60s(?)

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#165

Post by epo »

zcid wrote: post #135
brown9-2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the TSA is disbanded, then how do you suggest handling airport security? Who is in charge of it and who is responsible?

There was plenty sufficient airport security 10 years ago. The airlines and airports were perfectly capable of handling it then just as they are now.

That is simply nonsense, 10 years there was little practical security on domestic US flights. That was the soft underbelly that the 9/11 hijackers exploited. Security on international flights was also lacking compared to e.g. the UK.

The TSA is a hysterical over-reaction.

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#166

Post by dholowiski »

snowwindwaves wrote: post #147
dholowiski wrote: post #14

That's awesome. Ever read Cory doctorow's "little brother"? That's what I think of every time I read one of these stories. I've said it before- there are two easy ways to avoid this 1. Drive, 2. Don't visit the USA. To us residents, especially if you live in hawaii- sucks to be you! Oh, and the rest of the world is laughing at you. Fix your flipping government.

have you been to hawaii? it definitely doesn't suck to live there.

I haven't been to Hawaii, but I'm sure it's great to live there. However, if you want to visit anywhere other than the other side of the island, you have to submit to the TSA, or take a boat. That part sucks.

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#167

Post by epo »

dedward wrote: post #104
syllogism wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He can still ask to be escorted through the secured area --- which is what seems to have happened.

Yup - and he was offerred this earlier on in the story - though when he pushed the police on the pat-down procedure, they wouldn't commit to anything. They said they "might" have to pat him down before escorting him (which seems reasonable if they are being asked to securely transport him through the facility. While they didn't insist on groping his nads like the TSA does, they couldn't promise that wouldn't happen a…

I don't understand this. Clearly a search may be necessary to detect smuggled contraband, but that is the job of Customs. What grounds are there for the TSA to search someone not boarding a flight?

If there is a worry about carrying concealed weapons out of the airport then surely the appropriate agency is the police. Why do the TSA have to do anything with someone who has disembarked and is entering US soil?

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#168

Post by dholowiski »

viraptor wrote: post #150
dholowiski wrote: post #14

That's awesome. Ever read Cory doctorow's "little brother"? That's what I think of every time I read one of these stories. I've said it before- there are two easy ways to avoid this 1. Drive, 2. Don't visit the USA. To us residents, especially if you live in hawaii- sucks to be you! Oh, and the rest of the world is laughing at you. Fix your flipping government.

> Oh, and the rest of the world is laughing at you. Well... that's not the only thing. Of course I laugh at what TSA is doing... but on the other hand a lot of ideas from the US are copied in EU. I just hope this isn't one of them. UK already tried experimenting with those scanners, but I haven't heard about them for quite a while.

Oh yes, it's a nervous laugh for sure. Already, the DHS requires our contact information and Passport numbers if you're on a flight that goes over the USA, even if it's never going to land in the USA (think flight from Canada to Mexico).

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#169

Post by graywh »

gcv wrote: post #156
zcid wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was plenty sufficient airport security 10 years ago. The airlines and airports were perfectly capable of handling it then just as they are now.

Far be it from me to defend the TSA (its behavior and policies are outrageous), but your comment is simply wrong. Before September 11th, private companies handled airport security. After September 11th, airlines and airports were heavily criticized for relying on inadequately trained, low-paid employees for something as essential as security. Everyone in the world agreed that a federal agency must step in to do a bet…

And now we criticize the TSA for using "inadequately trained, low-paid employees for something as essential as security."
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