European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings • Hacker News Board

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#161

Post by Reason077 » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

Spearchucker wrote: post #23

lsh wrote: post #2

> mandated EU-wide summer time has only existed since 2002 and this repeal only repeals the mandatory adherence to daylight savings. Their next problem is consistency and coordination of the removal of DST among member states. And the Germans seem to be dominating the vote as well, so the really hard work in negotiating with others to remove their DST is the real barrier.

" And the Germans seem to be dominating the vote... " On what basis are Germany dominating the vote? They cannot. No EU member state can dominate a vote. Germany could at best lobby other member states, as other member states can (and do) lobby Germany.

> "On what basis are Germany dominating the vote?"

I suspect it comes down to the issue getting more publicity, interest and attention from media in Germany compared to other EU nations.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#162

Post by Vinnl » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

vixen99 wrote: post #144

Vinnl wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not familiar with the Swiss referendum, but Brexit was a case of asking a lot of ill-informed people for their vote and then blindly doing what they said. I don't think that was the case here; the survey just informed policy, rather than dictate it.

You might at least say why you think your bald statement should carry weight. Plenty of intellectuals support Brexit. https://briefingsforbrexit.com/ . A lot of people understood Tony Benn's five questions about people in power. https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tony-benn-dead-five-questions-powe... "What power have you got? "Where did you get it from? "In whose interests do you use it? "To whom are you accountable? "How do…

> your bald statement

I'm not sure what bald statement you think I made - from the context of your post, I presume you think I said no intellectuals support Brexit?

I did not; I wasn't even making a point about Brexit. The fact is that Brexit is the result of a referendum of which the government said they will adhere to its outcome, and I contrasted it to the topic at hand -the end of the DST-switch- in which the government ran a survey, but did not state they would adhere to whatever it results in.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#163

Post by conradfr » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

I have a side project that displays French radios' schedules that is basically wrong two days per year because of DST so I guess thanks the EU for fixing it.

As a citizen though I don't really have an opinion, except that I want the longest sun possible during the summer evenings ...

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#164

Post by rimliu » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:39 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #160

thomasedwards wrote: post #153

So many people, including a lot of comments here, seem to think that it’s designed around the winter. It’s not, it’s to move an hour of sunlight from the start of the day (say, 4am) to the end of the day (say, 9pm) so that you use less energy in the summer (hence the ‘savings’), and then you can enjoy that rather than being asleep. Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker.…

> "I like having a bit of daylight in the mornings in the winter" I am the opposite. For me, the early morning winter sunrise is an annoyance, and just feels a waste of daylight if it's bright outside when I'm asleep. Sometimes in mid-winter it seems like its already starting to get dark when I'm just getting started with my day. Awful!

I am with you. I enjoy long summer evenings when it is till some light at 11pm and you can be swimming, camping, whatever. Winter time would mean sun rising ~3:30 in the morning. I have no desire do get up that early.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#165

Post by dezzeus » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

thomasedwards wrote: post #153

So many people, including a lot of comments here, seem to think that it’s designed around the winter. It’s not, it’s to move an hour of sunlight from the start of the day (say, 4am) to the end of the day (say, 9pm) so that you use less energy in the summer (hence the ‘savings’), and then you can enjoy that rather than being asleep. Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker.…

You're both right and wrong: the need to "move" that hour is needed only during a period of the year (latitute-dependent; on average March-October in the northern hemisphere) that mostly cover the Summer (Winter in the southern hemisphere), in order to synchronize our body-clock with the sunrise (which depends on your location).

Obviously a solution that is "one size, fit all" doesn't exists, hence those (poorly informed) discussions...

The energy's story is mostly a consequence.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#166

Post by nmeofthestate » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

Reason077 wrote: post #160

thomasedwards wrote: post #153

So many people, including a lot of comments here, seem to think that it’s designed around the winter. It’s not, it’s to move an hour of sunlight from the start of the day (say, 4am) to the end of the day (say, 9pm) so that you use less energy in the summer (hence the ‘savings’), and then you can enjoy that rather than being asleep. Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker.…

> "I like having a bit of daylight in the mornings in the winter" I am the opposite. For me, the early morning winter sunrise is an annoyance, and just feels a waste of daylight if it's bright outside when I'm asleep. Sometimes in mid-winter it seems like its already starting to get dark when I'm just getting started with my day. Awful!

I agree - leaving the clocks unchanged means more light in the evenings (or, where I am, more like the late afternoons).

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#167

Post by jaabe » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:42 PM UTC

interfixus wrote: post #72

jaabe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We changed our educational grading scale a few years back to make it comparable to the international scale. One of the huge problems was that we had a top-grade for people who went “beyond” expectations for the course. Because “beyond” is up for interpretation, some examiners were more likely to give it than others, but in general it was just extremely hard to earn a top mark and no one really knew what was needed to…

> despite no one affected by it wanting it Falsified. I'm affected by it, and I want it, and I certainly know students who do too (Assuming I have correctly identified a Danish compatriot here).

Fair enough, but the majority of students, examinators and teachers aren’t asking for it.

I’m an examinator myself, and we have zero members on STEM educations who think their return are a good idea. We discussied it at our summit earlier this year.

I’d like to hear why you want it back. We originally removed it because it gave Danish students a major disadvantage when applying for anything internationally because people who would be straight A students, ranked a whole grade lover than their international counterparts, despite actually fulfilling the exact same course requirements.

I’ve had students where I would have liked to given them more than the top mark, because they were better than what was required. But I’d much rather give those people a top grade than give people who “only” meet the full requirements of a course a non-top grade. Because the difference might mean that a student who actually deserves an international top mark, loses out on a job or a PhD outside of Denmark. Where as the excellent student walks away with a top mark in both situations.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#168

Post by imarg » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:44 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #137

Spearchucker wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" And the Germans seem to be dominating the vote... " On what basis are Germany dominating the vote? They cannot. No EU member state can dominate a vote. Germany could at best lobby other member states, as other member states can (and do) lobby Germany.

> On what basis are Germany dominating the vote? The initial EU online public vote was dominated by German voters. There were 4.6 Million votes, of which 3 Million came from Germany [1]: "More than 80 percent of respondents to the largest online survey in EU history are in favor of abolishing changing the clocks in summer and winter, EU sources reported Wednesday. Around 4.6 million people took part in the survey, wh…

Edit: I think I misunderstood your comment. I thought you meant Greece and Cyprus prefer to keep summer time for ever. Whereas you probably meant that Greece and Cyprus wanted to keep changing the clocks.

Anyway I leave my initial comment below.

I think you read that wrong. You should look at section 3.5.

"The highest share of respondents in favour of “permanent summertime” is in Portugal (79%), Cyprus (73%) and Poland (72%)."

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#169

Post by sambucini » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:49 PM UTC

flurdy wrote: post #95

jopsen wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just make a system that the clients must enter data through? Instead of accepting spreadsheets... But, yes, I can imagine this is a nightmare..

Supply and demand. I would guess the clients can just go "no" and you either loose the electricity they provide or allow spreadsheets.

yeah, it's both what you say and sales people's poor understanding of how annoying that is (and the fact that they get rewarded for closed contracts where operational costs dont matter)

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#170

Post by gassit » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #147

ggm wrote: post #105

A change which may be rational closer to the equator, but which makes less sense in Edinburgh or further north surely?

I spent a year in Edinburgh. The sun rose after 9am in winter, after I started classes, and set at 4pm, before I got home. DST prevented me from ever seeing the sun for weeks. I went mad.

You spent a year there and didn’t work out there was no DST in winter?