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EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

reuters.com

161–170 of 183 posts

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#161
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...completely unfairly and without our consent and we're being told that it's a good thing. This is, more or less, the present and future of the EU on all matters. They are now trying to raise a supranational army (try to imagine what legitimate purpose that could have). They encourage member states to suppress political dissent, and wield power spitefully against those who oppose them (see all of the various cruel…

> see all of the various cruel and malicious acts and positions EU leaders take against Britain for deigning to resist the expansion of EU powers I have yet to see even one example of that, given how many opt-outs the UK was granted and how much the UK actively encouraged the expansion of the EU. Heck, the mere existence of Article 50 as an option puts it ahead of the behaviour of the federal government of the USA in…

> Spent 18 months trying to negotiate a withdrawal agreement, where the “Irish backstop” was their own solution to the RoI/NI border

The Irish backstop was the EU's solution, not the UK's. The talking point you're probably thinking of is that the UK-wide backstop was the UK's doing, which is technically true because the EU wanted the backstop to apply only to Northern Ireland - the UK negotiators objected because this would make a huge mess of the Good Friday Agreement (not to mention pissing off the DUP). I can't say I blame you for getting this wrong, since the whole point of this talking point was to leave people with the false impression that the backstop was the UK's doing.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#162
post #4

Huh? If anything, the reform codifies systems like Content ID and makes it horribly expensive to compete with Google and Facebook. And all that to cater to US copyright industry - a fine example of EU shooting itself in the foot.

> makes it horribly expensive to compete with Google and Facebook

there is no serious competition to Google or Facebook, in Europe. (or really the US either for that matter). How is this a shot in the foot if the industry is absent anyway?

In fact if Europe wanted to compete they would need to go the Chinese route. Double/Triple down on the regulation to the point where you make operation impossible and rebuild a national IT sector.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#163
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This law makes it illegal to use clips of a movie in critiquing it, or cut snippets of images to form a collage, or point to examples of art, film, and music in an educational setting. Really? It specifically says it shall in no way affect legitimate uses Which specific part are you referring to which prevents this?

The law will effectively eliminate any content uploading. Whether it is 100% originally created by the uploader or containing copyrightes material, covered by fair use or not. As the platform owner carries the whole risk for damages, only a few large industrial platforms like youtube might survive. But only with extremely stringend upload filters which mean the end of any content containg possibly copyrighted materia…

Will I be able to, with this law 1) Go to linode and buy a VPS 2) Upload my own reviews of a movie (including scenes from the movie as appropiate) which are allowed under existing copyright law 3) Make those reviews available to everyone?

My understanding is yes

Will I be able to, with this law 1) Go to linode and buy a VPS 2) Allow others to upload their own reviews of a movie (including scenes from the movie as appropiate) 3) Allow me to review them to ensure that they are allowed under existing copyright law 4) Make those reviews available to everyone?

My understanding is yes

So I don't understand how "This law makes it illegal to use clips of a movie in critiquing it". It simply ensures that those breaking copyright law have the weight of the law upon them.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The narrative of focusing on "those with vested interest in having this passed" is ignoring those with a vested interest in it not being passed. Julia's meeting list on her website is a Who's Who is Google and organizations Google is a part of or funding. I would argue I have a vested interest in having this passed: I want an Internet which isn't predominantly controlled by one corporation which steals content from e…

> Who's Who is Google and organizations Google is a part of or funding. I would argue I have a vested interest in having this passed: I want an Internet which isn't predominantly controlled by one corporation which steals content from everyone else and passes it off as their own. I have no employer or funding source based on this, I don't work for anyone in the movie, music, news, or tech industry, I just want a bett…

This is a common refrain of big tech: That regulation and consumer protection designed to reign in their abuses won't be a problem for them, and will hurt the little guy. It's interesting how loud they plead that they won't be hurt by regulation aimed at them. (Or that they're still opposed to it, if it will actually eliminate the competition.)

The answer is that that line of argument is bull---- and always has been. Small outfits using reasonable moderation practices will never have a problem with any sort of copyright regulation. The issue crops up when massive companies have made copyright abuse a major component of their largely automated platform, and done everything possible to avoid moderating content because legitimate, quality moderation does not scale. And as tech giants, they want to avoid things that don't scale.

The interesting thing is that the so-called "upload filter" law, that everyone says YouTube will already be fine with because of Content ID, will not be satisfied with Content ID. Because a real, human person must be handling appeals, rather than the little automatic deny that Google currently does. It will cost YouTube a massive amount of money to adopt this on it's scale, but will cost small websites or platforms nothing: They already have humans that read their email.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#165
post #114
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not gonna happen in Germany. In Germany if you own a website, you're obliged to tell the world your home address. (That is, by the way, why everyone knows where Lennart Poettering lives).

That's not true. You need to provide an impression if your website has a commercial or journalistic character. Yes, it's vague and up to the interpretation of a court.

> Yes, it's vague and up to the interpretation of a court.

Exactly. Depends on how much risk you're eager to take. And as a non-lawyer I'd prefer to take none. Most guides for laymen I've found stated that if it's not just about your kittens or vacation, it's not "purely private" any more.

For instance, aforementioned Lennart who writes about his open source projects preferred to provide this info.

I've also heard that the lawyers in this extortion business know some tricks to make the case land on a judge with "correct" interpretations of the related paragraphs. But that's not for sure, I've never been sued in Germany luckily.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#166
post #114
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not gonna happen in Germany. In Germany if you own a website, you're obliged to tell the world your home address. (That is, by the way, why everyone knows where Lennart Poettering lives).

That's not true. You need to provide an impression if your website has a commercial or journalistic character. Yes, it's vague and up to the interpretation of a court.

[deleted]

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#167
post #114
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not gonna happen in Germany. In Germany if you own a website, you're obliged to tell the world your home address. (That is, by the way, why everyone knows where Lennart Poettering lives).

That's not true. You need to provide an impression if your website has a commercial or journalistic character. Yes, it's vague and up to the interpretation of a court.

Oh, you're the guy behind zturn-stuff =) Thanks a lot, that's given me a great starting point to hack with this board. I hope I'll convince meta-xilinx maintainers to add support for it soon.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#168
post #161
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> see all of the various cruel and malicious acts and positions EU leaders take against Britain for deigning to resist the expansion of EU powers I have yet to see even one example of that, given how many opt-outs the UK was granted and how much the UK actively encouraged the expansion of the EU. Heck, the mere existence of Article 50 as an option puts it ahead of the behaviour of the federal government of the USA in…

> Spent 18 months trying to negotiate a withdrawal agreement, where the “Irish backstop” was their own solution to the RoI/NI border The Irish backstop was the EU's solution, not the UK's. The talking point you're probably thinking of is that the UK-wide backstop was the UK's doing, which is technically true because the EU wanted the backstop to apply only to Northern Ireland - the UK negotiators objected because thi…

It’s complicated. The border options are “none”, “NI/RoI border customs checks etc”, and “Irish Sea custons checks etc” (given nobody even suggested “customs checks etc on Sinn Fein/DUP constituency borders” AFAIK).

“None” was ruled out by making it a red line to leave the customs union and single market even though that was originally something quite of leave campaigners thought was a silly idea. And it was ruled in by the WA backstop if the UK couldn’t figure out how to leave the Single Market without violating the Good Friday Agreement.

NI/RoI seems to violate the Good Friday Agreement. People argue about if it really does, but ultimately what matters is if the situation no longer satisfies the parties involved, and Sinn Fein says it doesn’t.

Irish Sea enrages the DUP because they want to be identical to the UK mainland (except for abortion laws and gay marriage etc).

It’s a mess.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#169
post #30

This is what I despise about "news". If this was china or russia or venezuela, etc, the headline would be "China tightens grip on their people" or "International community concerned as China becomes more authoritarian" or "Pro freedom activists protest against China's draconian censorship". It would be spun as something more ominous than "reform". But reuters being reuters and also a major supporter of censorship, of…

Heh, a few weeks back I was listening a podcast and it mentioned when US/NATO decide to remove some foreign country's government they start by calling it regime instead of ruler/ruling party etc.

This isn’t just about the US/NATO e.g. Iran not wanting to recognize Israel so they refer to it as the Zoinist Regime, the term regime is used to refer to an illegitimate and often authoritarian government, however for the most part when NATO uses that term they are objectively correct even if they have additional motives for using it.

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wanted to add that, in the US, it isn't primarily the constitution that protects its freedoms, but rather the structure of their government and how it's been setup for gridlock among all the parties involved That protects established injustices as much as it protects established freedoms. Perhaps more, since the fundamental structure incorporates a number of injustices.

> That protects established injustices as much as it protects established freedoms. Perhaps more, since the fundamental structure incorporates a number of injustices. Not really. The legislature had to pass a law creating slavery, the executive had to sign it, the courts had to uphold it. Any of them could have said no. The same was true of laws prohibiting women from working, or Jim Crow laws, or laws excluding same…

> Not really. The legislature had to pass a law creating slavery, the executive had to sign it, the courts had to uphold it

Um, no. They didn't have to do that under the system established by the US Constitution. Because slavery predated that system, and was protected by it.

What would have taken positive action under the Constitution was abolishing slavery. But not only were there explicit protections for slavery in the Constitution (the first clause of Article I, Section 9; the next to last clause of Article V), but indirect protection against abolition was also provided by the mechanism the apportionment of seats in the House of Representatives (where having slaves gave extra representation), by the allocation of seats in the Senate (equal per State representation gave disproportionate power to the enfranchised citizens of slave states (who chose the government that chose the Senators, prior to direct election of Senators), and the electoral college (which as well enfranchised citizens in any state that disenfranchised any people through indirect election, blended the apportionment systems of the Senate and House, both of which favored slave states.)

> Lincoln unilaterally ended slavery

No, he didn't; slavery was ended (as a matter of law, and aside from penal slavery) by the 13th Amendment, which not only wasn't a unilateral Presidential act, but it wasn't even an act in which the President has a formal role.

And the abolition of slavery didn't abolish all of the structural injustices put in place to protect it.

> What you're left with is the things with 50%+1 support but not e.g. 67% support. But that's what checks and balances are supposed to do -- prevent you from passing laws against things nearly half the country doesn't support having a law against. If

The system the US has allows control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency without majority support of the voting population, especially easily if the geographic distribution of your support favors small states. So not only does it not require supermajority and not prevent laws which have a mere majority support, it actually facilitates laws with minority support as long as it is the structurally favored minority. And it creates a very high bar which requires broad active support by the strucurally favored minority to reverse that arrangements, as it requires a Constitutional Amendment, a process in which the disapprobation of citizens of smaller states is even stronger than their disproportionate power in choosing the political branches of the federal government, and thus setting federal legislation.

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