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US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

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Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#161

Post by rconti »

magduf wrote: post #105
graywh wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they drive with about a car's length of distance while going 45mph, shifting lanes without using their signals and other crazy shenanigans this shit happens everywhere

It's worse in some places than others. Oregon, for instance, is famous for its drivers being too polite.

That's Washington. Oregon drivers are aggressive like Californians, don't signal, but then drive ungodly slow just like the overly polite Washingtonians.

An Oregonian will cut you off without signalling, then drive 52mph.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#162

Post by brewdad »

bloomca wrote: post #153
ams6110 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars turning right across another lane of traffic (the bike lane) is the problem. It's just a very accident-prone way to arrange the lanes. The reality is in America drivers are not accustomed to bikes passing them on the right when they are turning right. It certainly wasn't part of anything I learned in driver's training (though that was quite a while ago). I honestly could not tell you who has the right of way in…

> The reality is in America drivers are not accustomed to bikes passing them on the right when they are turning right. It certainly wasn't part of anything I learned in driver's training In modern Oregon's DMV driver's book they specify this case and tell you that they have the right of way, they also include this question in the test. Not sure how it helps on the roads to cyclers, but at least they teach about it.

Cyclists in a bike lane in Oregon always have right of way, meaning right-turning cars must yield to approaching bikes before turning, with one GIANT caveat. Judicial rulings have come down stating that the bike lane does not continue into an intersection since there is no paint delineating the bike lane. The one part of the road where a cyclist is most vulnerable to getting hit is also the one stretch where a cyclist has no legal protection. It's madness.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#163

Post by rconti »

notacoward wrote: post #94
justinph wrote: post #11

This article fails to mention one of the biggest factors, which is the increased prevalence of SUVs and Trucks. These oversized vehicles have higher grilles and increased mass. The higher grille means injuries that on a car would have been a leg injury where the pedestrian ends up on the hood are abdominal injuries where the pedestrian can be pushed under the vehicle. The increased mass also means longer stopping dis…

Also bigger blind spots. On the bigger trucks it's practically impossible to see over the right front fender, so any pedestrian or cyclist approaching from that entire quarter - not just at intersections but even more so at driveways - will be in mortal danger.

Not just trucks; cars, too. Crash safety standards have made them impossible to see out of. I have a small hatchback from 2000 that you can see out of amazingly well, compared to my wife's 2008 4 door hatchback which is harder to see out of. Higher tailgate, higher rear 3/4. Then I bought a 2016 hatchback which was harder, still to see out of. Now we have a 2018 sedan that's virtually impossible to see out of with the rear 3/4. Mirrors are great in traffic, but it's much more difficult to be confident that you're not about to run something over in a parking lot. This is why reverse cameras are mandatory - you can't see out of cars anymore.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#164

Post by gdubs »

allemagne wrote: post #154
dfxm12 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also hate “share the road” situations where the right thing to do is take up the whole lane; When driving, I hate when cyclists don't take up the whole lane when they are supposed to (and where I live, they are supposed to unless there's a bike lane). It creates dangerous ambiguous situations when the lane belongs to a biker, but the biker doesn't take it. Pulling over to the side says "go ahead, and pass me" (whet…

This is why putting up with the potential road rage is the right answer to OP's dilemma. As a cyclist you must be noticeable and predictable at all times. Put flashing lights and reflectors anywhere you can. Make turn signals with your hand. When you take up a lane, do it confidently and clearly communicate your intent. Take it all seriously and "officially" and drivers will be forced to pick up on it.

Yea and just to be clear, that’s the choice I make.

However, there are situations where it’s not possible, because doing the “correct thing” would be more dangerous. Hard to illustrate with words, but there are some busy roads on my commute where the bike lane merges with the full lane, and then becomes a bike lane again after a busy intersection. The problem is, if you do the “correct” thing, rather than hugging the shoulder, you become exposed to cars cutting across lanes, at high speeds, with you essentially in their blind spot.

It’s a balance - you want to be predicable and do the correct thing as much as possible, but sometimes it’s just not safe.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#165

Post by rconti »

admiral_biatch wrote: post #39
maxsilver wrote: post #9

The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. But that infrastructure has fallen out of favor as of late. "Complete streets" are the new fashion trend, and are significantly more dangerous, by combining these forms of traffic altogether and just sort of hoping it all works out. But, "complete" streets are super cheap, and give the illusi…

In my opinion isolating separate transportation modes is only good if it is complete isolation but that's never feasible in a city. Too expensive and space-inefficient to make every intersection collision-free for cars, bikes and pedestrians. If you separate cars, bikes and pedestrians most of the time but their paths cross at intersections then you have a problem because drivers might not expect a sudden bike lane o…

Plus, separating all of this infrastructure takes space, which in turn makes everything less walkable. In cities, there really need to be fewer car lanes for it to work.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#166

Post by maxxxxx »

jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

" I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather"

The Florida lifestyle is to drive from air conditioned place to air conditioned place in your car. I am exaggerating but you should try ORegon or Washington for a more active lifestyle.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#167

Post by trophycase »

nkrisc wrote: post #29
chasd00 wrote: post #21

heh a couple summer's ago in Dallas i got hit by a police officer while crossing the street. Ironically, while he was on his cell phone. I had to do the whole ninja-roll thing over the hood and on to the pavement. Came out of it with only a sore wrist and a funny story for the conference call i was late to. a buddy of mine grabbed a guy and pulled him out of the way of a city bus. The guy had the light to cross and t…

Honestly I think right turns on red should be illegal at more intersections for this reason. At least busier ones. It's these cases where a right turner has to carefully watch for oncoming traffic that pedestrians are exactly opposite of where they're looking. God forbid you're trying to cross from the same side of the street as the right turner.

People just need to learn to check their right side mirror before turning.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#168

Post by upofadown »

magduf wrote: post #134
jgys wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also don't dress too provocatively, or you'll be asking for it. ... Oh, wait, we're victim blaming about something else this time?

It doesn't matter if you're right when you're dead.

But it does matter who is right when determining who is wrong...

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#169

Post by tom_ »

cletus wrote: post #139

Weird. This article doesn't mention what (IMHO) is one of the biggest factors impacting pedestrian and cyclist safety: the ability in almost all of the US to turn right at red lights. I live in NYC where this is illegal in the five boroughs. Weirdly I've met more than a few people who live here who didn't know this. You will come across drivers who don't know this too occasionally who'll give you attitude if you walk…

It's the opposite way round - I think it's the Coriolis effect - but you can turn left on red in at least some parts of Australia.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#170

Post by maxxxxx »

towaway1138 wrote: post #156

I recently moved to a city with "excellent" bicycle infrastructure. Contrary to what I might have imagined, this seems to make things more dangerous for all. The extra lanes, markings, lights, and signs increase distraction, making it harder to concentrate on what actually matters--people. In addition, almost no bicyclists actually drive lawfully here. It's typical to see them going the wrong way down streets, blowin…

"It's typical to see them going the wrong way down streets, blowing stop signs, red lights, and crosswalks."

That bothers me too. I ride a bike myself but a lot of bikers ride like complete idiots. My favorite is riding at night without lights and reflective equipment.

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