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Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

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Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#161

Post by isostatic »

noir_lord wrote: post #94
klmr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note, the source here might be a biased here That’s putting it mildly: I’m entirely aware that there’s a concerted campaign in the UK to smear Corbyn by fabricating a story from out-of-context quotes and, despite not being a fan of Corbyn, I’m entirely on board with the idea that he’s being unjustly targeted and probably isn’t actually antisemitic. But so far there’s no evidence that Israel is behind this effort. A…

One of the things that annoys me about this debate is that anti-semetic !== Anti Israel I've no issue with the Jews (I don't actually know any) but specific things the Israeli government does sure I do. Of course it's useful for people to conflate the two as they do with Corbyn or anyone who condemns Israel. Frankly I've no dog in the fight, I think Israel and the Palestinian's are frequently in the wrong. It's quite…

The problem with criticism of Israel is that it tends to be disproportionate compared with their criticism of other countries. While some call to boycott Israel due to it's illegal settlements in the west bank - an area it invaded in 1967, few also call for boycotts of Turkey (invaded Cyprus in 1975), China (invaded Tibet in 1950), Russia (annexed Crimea in 2014 and parts of Georgia a few years earleir), UAE (occupied Socotra last year)

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#162

Post by moftz »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #22
anon007 wrote: post #14

I personally was approached by what I now believe was an undercover spy agent in San Francisco. I believe he might have been Israeli. How we got there is a long story. But, the person (agent) came to a coffee shop that I frequented and made himself very visible talking audibly about certain areas that were my interest. I'm a very outgoing person so after over-hearing him by the second or third encounter there, I appr…

I don't quite get why an Israeli spy would like to get you to say something anti-semitic/anti-Israel. Would he want to blackmail you then? Did he want to make sure you are supportive of Isreal, sort of reverse-psychologically?

The foreign agent might have had some suspicion that the target wasn't a fan of Israel or that he was sympathetic to the Palestinians so the agent played a hard-line approach in hoping that he would fall more towards anti-semite than just a person that disagrees with Israel's policies. When you can bond with someone over a passion for something, some technical topic and antisemitism in this case, the target might be more open to sharing more about themselves. They may see the agent not only as a colleague but a comrade. Now the agent has an in as a friend, they can hang out with the target more and share information that two colleagues who don't work at the same place might not necessarily share. Trade secrets, non-public business plans, classified information, and even just access to more people in the community the agent is trying to infiltrate. "Hey Jim, meet my new friend Ben. He's working with blahblahblah right now, I knew you were trying to get funding for some new blablahblah design at work so I figured maybe you two should bounce ideas off eachother". Sounds pretty innocent but maybe Jim is dumber than the first target so the agent gets even closer to the true goal. Maybe Jim has access to source code or production servers for some system the Israelis are trying to hack. Maybe Jim is into fringe activities and can be blackmailed or is careless with his work laptop while the agent is hanging out at Jim's house. Either way, the "cold call" meeting is probably just the beginning of a complex plan to get close to the real targets.

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#163

Post by throwaway54353 »

benchaney wrote: post #159
TLAFanBoy wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously, no one said anything about "assassination" by Mossad. Your attempted use of reductio ad absurdum was in bad faith. One would likely be more concerned with being accused of "anti-semitism" and having your name google-bombed by a Zionist smear campaign like Canary Mission. [0] Imagine having a potential client or employer finding your name on a list of "anti-semite Israel haters" for doing nothing more that…

Can you give an example of someone who is on that list for nothing more than suggesting Palestinians have humans rights, or that Israel engages in espionage in the United States? I clicked on a few people at random and they were all there because they advocated killing jews.

here

https://canarymission.org/professor/Jessica_Barnes

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#164

Post by gadders »

noir_lord wrote: post #94
klmr wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note, the source here might be a biased here That’s putting it mildly: I’m entirely aware that there’s a concerted campaign in the UK to smear Corbyn by fabricating a story from out-of-context quotes and, despite not being a fan of Corbyn, I’m entirely on board with the idea that he’s being unjustly targeted and probably isn’t actually antisemitic. But so far there’s no evidence that Israel is behind this effort. A…

One of the things that annoys me about this debate is that anti-semetic !== Anti Israel I've no issue with the Jews (I don't actually know any) but specific things the Israeli government does sure I do. Of course it's useful for people to conflate the two as they do with Corbyn or anyone who condemns Israel. Frankly I've no dog in the fight, I think Israel and the Palestinian's are frequently in the wrong. It's quite…

Well, this is the widely accepted definition of anti-semitism [1]. As long as you don't do anything on the list you should be OK.

[1] https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-anti...

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#165

Post by seagullz »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #152

You know what would start to stop all this? Getting pissed off at politicians for accepting essentially blank check amounts from AIPAC, who have been the largest lobbyist in Congress for decades. People don't want to talk about this though, because it's invariably labeled as "antisemitic".

Not just the politicians, much of the mainstream press too.

Exhibit: that NSA shares US citizen's private data with Israeli spooks is not newsworthy to NYT [0], even though Israeli paper Haaretz thinks otherwise [1].

[0] https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/new-york-times-nsa-israel-no...

[1] https://www.haaretz.com/report-nsa-sharing-u-s-citizens-data...

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#166

Post by leesalminen »

anon007 wrote: post #14

I personally was approached by what I now believe was an undercover spy agent in San Francisco. I believe he might have been Israeli. How we got there is a long story. But, the person (agent) came to a coffee shop that I frequented and made himself very visible talking audibly about certain areas that were my interest. I'm a very outgoing person so after over-hearing him by the second or third encounter there, I appr…

A very similar thing happened to a friend of mine in a coffee shop in LA about 15 years ago.

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#167

Post by _underfl0w_ »

walrus01 wrote: post #12
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #2

> When mysterious operatives lured two cybersecurity researchers to meetings at luxury hotels over the past two months How does one go about luring cybersecurity reaserchers? Surely a cybersecurity researcher is not you’re average mark? Luring is generally something an adversary does to an one who is unsuspecting. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the us of the word is dishonest, but it sure seems to be leaning toward h…

> How does one go about luring cybersecurity reaserchers? Given the overwhelmingly male demographic of people who describe themselves as "cybersecurity researchers", probably with $2000 escorts and hotel rooms rigged with cameras. It's not rocket science, literally one of the oldest espionage compromat tricks in the book.

Pretty sure escorts also come in the "male" variety.

...not that I would know...

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#168

Post by Bartweiss »

gowld wrote: post #142
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>One of the things that annoys me about this debate is that anti-semetic !== Anti Israel That's the point. People on the pro-Israel side of things know that being antisemitic is very much not acceptable for anyone in a position of power in the 1st world to be in this day any age so they try their hardest to conflate the two. It's much more obvious when the conflation is much more of a stretch, e.g. "how dare you not…

It works in reverse too, where you can dog-whistle any anti-Semitic statements by saying that you were refering to "Israeli government" or "globalists" or "bankers", not Jews.

This is a significant point; it's definitely not a one-way thing.

At the simplest, there's genuine confusion over symbolism, like people mistaking the Magen David for the Israeli flag. A lot of other times, there's way less excuse; I think the infamous example here is (ex London Mayor) Ken Livingstone comparing a Jewish reporter to a concentration camp guard. His justification was that people are afraid to criticize Israel - despite having been speaking to a British reporter covering a domestic beat.

Honestly, I think that's part of what makes the conflation so enduring. If it stemmed from one side, people would get used to dismissing it as a partisan move. But depending on who you're appealing to and what you're justifying, it can be run from all different political starting points, so no one is putting it in political cartoons as "that thing the other guys do".

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#169

Post by jonnydubowsky »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #155
pault wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't edit the original comment because it triggered the flame war filters, but I'm curious why this is such a controversial question and garnered so many downvotes. I sincerely wanted to know what popular the consensus is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews ctrl+f "the Jews". I wouldn't make your opinion of what is "offensive" depend on an ad-hoc poll in times where even the most rudimentary looking into things for oneself seems to be getting rare. (or where people think clicking a button constitutes an argument, for that matter) In this case, the comment also said "the Palestinians", and if you hear someone say "the blacks", as well a…

You're grammar rules here are inconsistent. The comment said "The Palestinians" not "the Muslims" because they were talking about Palestinians, people who live in Palestine. There are Muslims, Jews, Christians and agnostics living there. Israel's, people who live in Israel, include all varieties of religious groups. When you critique Israel's government policies but say "the Jews" you are incorrectly describing an entire religion when you claim to be talking about a group of people that live in Israel. Any "mistakes" with this logic are suspicious, but maybe they just skipped that part of the grammer?

Re: Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many

#170

Post by andy_ppp »

klmr wrote: post #151
andy_ppp wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Corbyn is just not a very good politician who wants to try a socialist experiement in right wing Britain. I sat down and did the maths based on tax revenues and so on and Corbyn's plans roughly call for £500bn of additional borrowing. I'm not saying don't do it but it's scary this isn't communicated clearly to people the costs of renationalising water/rail/university fees etc. etc. What makes you think there is…

> What makes you think there is a campaign against him or just that he simply isn't that popular Because his policies are virtually never mentioned, he’s being attacked for made-up allegations instead. This very fact that, as you point out, his policies are not discussed in the media is why people think there’s a smear campaign against him. People wish the press would engage him on policy grounds. As for the borrowin…

I actually think that’s clearly not true otherwise Jeremy would be miles ahead in the polls... people do understand what he’s offering they just don’t want it!
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