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U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

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Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#161
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get how your argument about time relates. You don't acquire the risk of injury, death or property damage at the same time you purchase insurance. In both cases under discussion, there is existing risk that is mitigated by betting. > If you were doing both bets before the game started, at about the same time, then the second bet would effectively not be gambling. Not because of your motivation, exactly, but be…

> Why would the second bet in your example be any different from the second bet in mine? If you're conditionally making the second bet based on outside factors, then you might not actually be implementing a strategy of reduced variance. (And if you were making that bet unconditionally then why did you wait until midgame?) It's tricky. I'd rather deal with simpler upfront scenarios. > Let's go with a more real world e…

> If you're conditionally making the second bet based on outside factors, then you might not actually be implementing a strategy of reduced variance.

This doesn't make sense to me. What are "outside" factors and why do they matter? When you place the second bet, you have risk that you are reducing. Whether that risk has changed since you placed your first bet has no effect on whether your second bet reduces your risk or not.

> I'd rather deal with simpler upfront scenarios.

I'm sure you would, but you have failed to explain the relevance of upfront scenarios to our discussion.

> If you don't have enough info you might overpay, but overpaying isn't gambling.

You have still failed to explain WHY you think reducing risk by placing a bet that you will be injured is not gambling but placing other bets that reduce risk are.

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#162
post #131
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the difference is, no one is betting that you actually do have an unforeseen incident, You are. When you buy insurance, you are betting that you will have an unforeseen incident and will utilize your insurance. The fact that you are doing so to offset some financial risk doesn't change the fact that you are gambling. I don't see why source of a risk matters here. I believe the position I am arguing against…

> You are. When you buy insurance, you are betting that you will have an unforeseen incident and will utilize your insurance. Almost, but I don't feel like this is 100% accurate, because neither involved party wants an unforeseen incident to occur - the 'win' situation, if you could call it that, is the same for both parties. I can sort of see the argument that you are betting you "won't win", but I can't see it as g…

> To me, part of the difference is that the risk/chance involved (life) is not intrinsic to the transaction - it is more or less known what your returns will be, and under what conditions.

It is? I'm pretty sure health care pricing is far more opaque than slot machine payout amounts (the opaqueness of payout rates varies by state).

You have increased the downside of not having large hospital bills. You are taking on risk, but the idea is that the small risk reduces the variance in your outcomes. See the other reply thread where I am trying to understand why reducing variance in one situation is gambling but doing it in another is not.

> if what you posit is true, is the peace of mind one gains from having insurance akin to gambling addiction?

I would say akin, but obviously not the same. In both cases you have made wager that you can be usually pretty certain has a negative expected value and the motivation for this wager is to acquire a positive/pleasant state of mind.

Re: U.S. Now Says All Online Gambling Illegal, Not Just Sports Bets

#163
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would the second bet in your example be any different from the second bet in mine? If you're conditionally making the second bet based on outside factors, then you might not actually be implementing a strategy of reduced variance. (And if you were making that bet unconditionally then why did you wait until midgame?) It's tricky. I'd rather deal with simpler upfront scenarios. > Let's go with a more real world e…

> If you're conditionally making the second bet based on outside factors, then you might not actually be implementing a strategy of reduced variance. This doesn't make sense to me. What are "outside" factors and why do they matter? When you place the second bet, you have risk that you are reducing. Whether that risk has changed since you placed your first bet has no effect on whether your second bet reduces your risk…

Can we please not argue about when the bets happen? It's irrelevant to my main point. Pretend I didn't mention it.

As long as the only things involved are the "team A wins" reward and the "team B wins" reward, any bet you make that brings them closer together is not gambling.

> You have still failed to explain WHY you think reducing risk by placing a bet that you will be injured is not gambling but placing other bets that reduce risk are.

They're both not gambling. (Logistically. Legality is another issue.)

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