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Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

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Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#161

Post by toufiqbarhamov »

jessaustin wrote: post #160
RyJones wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her family might disagree that nobody else was hurt. The people tasked with cleaning her of the pavement may disagree, as well. Not all externalities of drug use are physical. I'm extremely pro-legalized everything. I find your callous disregard alarming.

Sure, let's have a Drug War to make it easier on the sidewalk cleaners. All the murder, all the injustice, all the expense, it's totally worth it because psilocybin is the only reason anyone ever jumped off a building. "Callous disregard", indeed.

I'm extremely pro-legalized everything.

How did you get from there to, Sure, let’s have a Drug War?

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#162

Post by daveFNbuck »

black-tea wrote: post #158
daveFNbuck wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My concern is that this is a popular enough sentiment that universal health care would lead to real reductions in freedom for Americans. I think it's reasonable to be concerned about anything that could contribute to current trends toward totalitarianism.

What freedoms does USA have that European countries with universal healthcare do not? Bear in mind Portugal has healthcare and legalised all drugs.

I don't know the answer to your question. In the US we already have people trying to use welfare as an excuse to mandate drug testing and control what people are allowed to eat. Maybe this sort of thing never happens elsewhere, but the US is often an outlier in how shitty we can be to people.

It's also my understanding that healthcare was a big part of what convinced people in the UK to vote for Brexit.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#163

Post by waynecochran »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #154
waynecochran wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never said illegal. If I willingly place myself in a high risk category I should pay for that myself. I may buy a wing suit someday, but I won't ask you to pay for my wheelchair.

Should coal miners get health insurance? What about first responders?

Yes. And their employers should bear much of the risk. The actuarial tables should dictate the cost.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#164

Post by RankingMember »

waynecochran wrote: post #163
daveFNbuck wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should coal miners get health insurance? What about first responders?

Yes. And their employers should bear much of the risk. The actuarial tables should dictate the cost.

What is this fear of paying for higher risk individuals based on? That more people will start bungee-jumping and skydiving or becoming firefighters and police officers? Part of the point of a nationalized system is that the costs offset- the healthier people use less services than they're paying for, but in exchange, you get to live in a society where everyone can get care regardless of employment, hobbies, or pre-existing condition. The young pay for the old. The idea of adding a bureaucracy on top of that to try to parcel out individual risk and surcharge people sounds like it'd be an amazingly complex waste of money in itself. It also sort of reminds me of China's social credit system, but with your healthcare-cost related activities instead. Would you have to start reporting that you play a game of touch football on Thanksgiving, or that you ride your bike instead of driving a car to get to work? Maybe I walk through a neighborhood where I could be mugged and end up in the ER. Now I have a "walks through bad neighborhoods" surcharge? Where does it end?

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#165

Post by daveFNbuck »

waynecochran wrote: post #163
daveFNbuck wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should coal miners get health insurance? What about first responders?

Yes. And their employers should bear much of the risk. The actuarial tables should dictate the cost.

What if their employers decline to pay for it? Or what if people with dangerous hobbies decide to take the risk and not pay for additional insurance? Are you OK with these people dying because they can't afford to pay for their health care?

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#166

Post by waynecochran »

RankingMember wrote: post #164
waynecochran wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And their employers should bear much of the risk. The actuarial tables should dictate the cost.

What is this fear of paying for higher risk individuals based on? That more people will start bungee-jumping and skydiving or becoming firefighters and police officers? Part of the point of a nationalized system is that the costs offset- the healthier people use less services than they're paying for, but in exchange, you get to live in a society where everyone can get care regardless of employment, hobbies, or pre-ex…

It is a matter of fairness. The way insurance traditionally worked is that your cost was proportional to your risk; This is what actuaries do for a living. Insurance companies live and die on actuarial tables. I was asked whether I smoked for my life insurance -- that was a fair question. Of course this will always be a crude estimate, but drug use voluntarily puts one in a higher risk category and actuaries can give you the numbers.

Now this should not be the end of the story. I understand there are folks who need medical treatment that can not afford it. There should always be a mechanism to make sure folks get the necessary help. I would hope the church or some other private entity would step up -- and often do. If not, then the final catch is the government.

The government taking over the whole health insurance industry is a naive solution that will result in crappy coverage for everyone. I don't claim to have a complete solution -- it is a difficult problem. I don't like extremes in either direction : completely privatized and completely government run are both bad solutions.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#167

Post by waynecochran »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #165
waynecochran wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And their employers should bear much of the risk. The actuarial tables should dictate the cost.

What if their employers decline to pay for it? Or what if people with dangerous hobbies decide to take the risk and not pay for additional insurance? Are you OK with these people dying because they can't afford to pay for their health care?

Every now and then I hear of someone in a wing suit dying. I don't like hearing about anyone's death, but I realize they knew the risks. I am not sure where I stand on legalization of various drugs, but I do feel they should have a higher insurance rate. I'm am not OK with anyone dying, but my sympathy level does vary. In fact, I have a higher sympathy for folks who are hooked on various drugs and are trapped by their lifestyle. I am not above my own addictions.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#168

Post by catcow »

drb91 wrote: post #4

I must say I take a huge amount of joy watching a corporation try to bend over backwards to monopolize a fungus that has been enjoyed by humans for millenia. Is it a surprise that a capitalist industry is more motivated by profits than by the production of useful goods and services? Of course not: but it is good comedy. Maybe laughing at the absurdity of for-profit healthcare will be what saves us all from crippling…

I don't see how a company that uses the legal system to get their way is a free market capitalist company. Sounds like an oligarchy enabled by convoluted laws.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#169

Post by catcow »

jessaustin wrote: post #144
lenzm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm on the same side as you, but you don't help your case by making wild claims like: > No user of this product has ever harmed anyone else as a result of using it

I don't care to make a "case". I'm interested in any examples of contradictions to this claim. So far my interest has not been satisfied in this thread...

The absence of evidence does not indicate evidence of absence.

Physical harm is rare in psychedelic experiences. Psychological harm is very, very real and has destroyed peoples lives when they get too carried away using psychedelics. I agree that these compounds should be legal, but to say they are 100% safe is ridiculous.

Re: Compass Pathways has set itself up to be the first legal provider of psilocybin

#170

Post by jessaustin »

toufiqbarhamov wrote: post #161
jessaustin wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, let's have a Drug War to make it easier on the sidewalk cleaners. All the murder, all the injustice, all the expense, it's totally worth it because psilocybin is the only reason anyone ever jumped off a building. "Callous disregard", indeed.

I'm extremely pro-legalized everything. How did you get from there to, Sure, let’s have a Drug War ?

In writing that, I was just paraphrasing GP in an ironic way. Of course I don't support any Drug War. I realize that means that drugs should be legal.
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