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Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

nytimes.com

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Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#161

Post by magduf »

orthecreedence wrote: post #33

I'm torn about this. On the one hand, Patreon shouldn't have to do business with people they don't like. On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened polic…

>Then you see counter-arguments, like "well if you don't want to get banned, don't say bad things!" But then, who decides what's bad?

That's easy: whoever owns the platform. If I own the platform, Daily Stormer isn't going to be using it. I don't want to be associated with those morons, so I'm not going to do business with them. If it's my platform and my business, I have every right to refuse to do business with those people.

If you want to be fair and equal and give everyone equal access no matter how vile their viewpoint, then you need to make a government service that doesn't discriminate. But then, you may have a big problem with the voters if the government is funding something the voters don't like. That's the nature of democratic governments: people collectively decide what they, as a nation and society, are going to allocate resources towards. So it's the voters' right to refuse to provide a platform for this unliked minority as well.

>So, there are problems that people have, and things that need to be talked about, but they aren't allowed to say anything about it.

If you feel that way, you have every right to set up your own platform and allow those people access to it. But if you're giving access to literal Nazis, I also have the right to shun you, which I will. If you want to willingly associate with that type of scum, then I'm going to assume that you're cut from the same cloth.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#162

Post by josteink »

While the article incorrectly conflates being anti-feminist with being against gender equality[1], it’s worth noting that the ban was not for anti-feminist content, but for other improper speech which may or may not be highly contextual.

But somehow they decided to ban Milo too, making it much less clear what these bans are all about.

Patreon might want to make it clear at this point whether their guidelines are political or not.

[1] I’d rather argue modern day feminist oppose gender equality by constantly promoting special privileges for women. As such being anti-feminist means being pro gender equality.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#163

Post by monksy »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #157
monksy wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a huge concern over anyone who is stating that the CCs are to partly to be blamed. Yes, they were used for firearms. Firearms are expensive and plastic (for the most part) is the currency in the US. For me that's flipping the bozo bit for that individual. It's not "fascism" or "trump" that we should be afraid of. It's the mob rule.

> It's not "fascism" or "trump" that we should be afraid of. If you don't have anything to fear from Trump, that's nice for you, but given that he's openly calling for me and people dear to me to have our civil rights revoked, it's pretty shitty of you to tell me that I shouldn't be afraid of him.

In America, we have 3 branches of government with checks and balances additionally we have very difficult to modify rights given in the constitution. Things are not likely to change.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#164

Post by jstarfish »

aetherson wrote: post #111
losvedir wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or Visa likewise today -- it's understood that other people will use the same plastic to pay for things you morally disapprove of, just as they could use cash. But it's positioned as a neutral carrier, and nobody cares (I think). Heh, well I hope so. But that recent NYTimes story[0] about how mass shootings used guns and ammo bought with a credit card makes me unsure about that. I'd have thought using cash vs credi…

I was reading some tangential article the other day which suggested that porn services had difficulty with Visa not doing business with them.

That's less for ideological grounds and entirely to do with the chargebacks that ensue when the wife finds the bill and the husband denies everything, insisting the card was stolen, and the shitty business models of shady outfits opting you into recurring subscriptions that require your using a credit card as "age verification." All of it gets contested and it's more trouble than it's worth.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#165

Post by brandonmenc »

ubernostrum wrote: post #153
paulcole wrote: post #92

> Why are we giving companies and people the right to silence vast amounts of voices and opinions on random whims? This is not a new situation. But all of a sudden it’s a problem because it’s conservative white guys instead of women, LGBTQ people and people of color?

[flagged]

> turnabout is a nice source of schadenfreude

The problem with the, "ha! now you're getting yours!" attitude is that the situation will inevitably flip, and "your" side will be on the receiving end. Again. Rinse, repeat.

Meanwhile, the power of the tools keeps growing until one day, it will be absolute. Whoever is on the wrong side of the ideological coin flipping when that happens will be in big trouble.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#166

Post by vowelless »

ianleeclark wrote: post #87
vowelless wrote: post #29

Looks like this guy is from Europe. Do they have the same stigma for those words? Are we okay applying American standards to their words? That would be a slippery slope. Some nations consider speech against their sultans or their deens as hate speech. Will patreon take the side of those governments or the vast majority of those populations (who will gladly watch blasphemers get imprisoned)? On the other hand, should…

> Do they have the same stigma for those words? We both know a dude from the UK, who primarily speaks English, and who talks about American politics would be aware of the stigma of the word. > Are we okay applying American standards to their words? It's important to look at the context of the situation to determine what's happening. In this situation, Sargon was appealing emotionally to white supremacists by saying t…

Would you ban her from Instagram?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/27/middleeast/kuwait-philippines...

I can assure you the life of domestic indentured servants in the Khaleej is much worse than that of blacks in america today.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#167

Post by PopeDotNinja »

orthecreedence wrote: post #33

I'm torn about this. On the one hand, Patreon shouldn't have to do business with people they don't like. On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened polic…

I wonder if there's a way to create a "no assholes" rule that almost everyone could get behind. It'd be hard to come up with for sure.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#168

Post by danso »

EpicEng wrote: post #155
danso wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slurs seem more like a natural symptom of him thinking that black people act subhuman.

I see him throwing the slurs people in his stream are using back at them. >Exactly how you describe black people acting is the impression I get dealing with the Alt Right. I’m really, I’m just not in the mood to deal with this kind of disrespect.” He's saying that these people are acting in exactly the manner they are accusing others of acting, and he's using their slurs to make the comparison.

Yeah no.

> Maybe you’re just acting like a n____r, mate? Have you considered that? Do you think white people act like this? White people are meant to be polite and respectful to one another, and you guys can’t even act like white people, it’s really amazing to me.

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#169

Post by magduf »

smallnamespace wrote: post #148
zamalek wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The government, soapboxes, homes and places of business that are happy to have them. Freedom of Speech is not the right to be heard. If people don't like what you have to say, or how you are saying it, they are free to walk away. If you don't like what someone is doing in your place of business, you can also throw…

> If people don't like what you have to say, or how you are saying it, they are free to walk away. Yes, but it's funny that we're now deliberating conflating 'people' with 'private corporations', a conflation that folks on the left vociferously condemned when it came to Citizens United. I think we should look at ourselves a bit more carefully in the mirror - are private corporations supposed to be held to a higher st…

>Put in another context, should we get rid of net neutrality because Comcast ought to have the right to decide what content goes over its pipes?

No, we should ban monopolies for one thing, and 2) the whole point of net neutrality is to bring the idea of "common carrier" to the internet. If you provide the transit pathways, you shouldn't get to play favorites.

I'll make an analogy: if you own a public stage, you should have every right to deny access to Nazis who want to use it to publicly promote their viewpoint. However, if you own a train system (which also happens to be a government-granted monopoly and highly regulated as such), you should have no right to restrict the Nazis' travel, as long as they follow the rules and don't create a disturbance; they should be able to buy train tickets just like anyone else. (Now if they attack people on the train, or try to make public speeches on them or in the stations, that's different.)

Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt

#170

Post by vowelless »

krick wrote: post #59
vowelless wrote: post #29

Looks like this guy is from Europe. Do they have the same stigma for those words? Are we okay applying American standards to their words? That would be a slippery slope. Some nations consider speech against their sultans or their deens as hate speech. Will patreon take the side of those governments or the vast majority of those populations (who will gladly watch blasphemers get imprisoned)? On the other hand, should…

I won't be speaking for all Europeans, as all this craze you labeled as "American standards" certainly has it's influence, but I can confirm all these stories are pretty funny to read for a person, whom I'd label as a "sane European". But I don't think it is the issue here, anyway. I might not feel the righteous rage reading the quotations from these Benjamin guy, but I might on the other topic. So imagining that I d…

Or let private corporations do whatever they want. Let there be new ones that come in and fill the gaps. Make competition easier by busting monopolies.
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