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Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

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Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#161

Post by ethbro »

baby wrote: post #151
FakeComments wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I’m American. And honestly, you have every reason to tell me to fuck off and more besides. And I’m not Father Christmas, if you make a deal with me, I expect something in exchange. But what can we do for people in Africa?

Make America realize that helping other countries will benefit the world including the US in the long run. Or convince America that there is a whole continent that could become a powerful ally to the US when it will economically boom.

Working on it.

We're just in a bit of a 1968 moment after despairing over how difficult nation building is with Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'm sure we'll return to our regularly scheduled American exceptionalism circa-2040.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#162

Post by kolikotime »

jnurmine wrote: post #153
kolikotime wrote: post #63

West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan…

Are you seriously claiming that the French (and/or EU) somehow orchestrated the Libyan civil war? Offtopic: You joined yesterday and have gained 160+ points already with only 7 comments. That is very impressive!

Of course they didn't orchestrate it, but without Sarkozy's calls for an air intervention,which America and Britain then went along with, the war likely would have fizzled or resolved in a way in which there wouldn't be a massive power vacuum. Along with Iraq it stands as one of this century's greatest follies as it resulted in Libya having very factionalized governance, and furthermore then led towards arms being spread across the Sahel, which led towards trouble in Mali and in Northern Nigeria the rise of Boko Haram.

Furthermore it backfired on the EU as Gaddafi was instrumental towards regulating migratory flows, even during the protests and the civil war.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#163

Post by chrischen »

kolikotime wrote: post #149
FakeComments wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I’m American. And honestly, you have every reason to tell me to fuck off and more besides. And I’m not Father Christmas, if you make a deal with me, I expect something in exchange. But what can we do for people in Africa?

Invest in African growth businesses(stocks at the moment, African focused mutual markets). Purchase African products. Lobby your government/EU governments to continue AGOA(US)/open the door towards African food/crop imports (unlikely). And honestly, tourism, some great destinations on the continent, and a great way to actually spend in local economies. Africans don't need charity. The NGO industrial complex has faile…

Is it true to say the US donates more (like Tom’s shoes) than legitimate investments?

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#164

Post by andresalo »

moltar wrote: post #40
_mxys wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, Montenegro's ONLY highway. They went into it despite experts knowing full well that the country couldn't afford one. "Doubts about the highway surfaced after two feasibility studies, conducted in 2006 and 2012, showed it was not economically viable." https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-silkroad-europe-mon...

I can’t imagine building a highway on that terrain. I drove thru a lot of Montenegro and I haven’t seen any flatlands.

You should check the A-8 Highway in northern Spain (paid with EU funds though)

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#165

Post by reaperducer »

baby wrote: post #151
FakeComments wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I’m American. And honestly, you have every reason to tell me to fuck off and more besides. And I’m not Father Christmas, if you make a deal with me, I expect something in exchange. But what can we do for people in Africa?

Make America realize that helping other countries will benefit the world including the US in the long run. Or convince America that there is a whole continent that could become a powerful ally to the US when it will economically boom.

Make America realize that helping other countries will benefit the world including the US in the long run.

America does realize this. It's why USAID, VOA, and other agencies spend billions of dollars each year for the last 60+ years building water systems, and swerage treatment plants, distributing medicine, teaching people better agriculture methods, stocking hospitals, supplying HIV/AIDS drugs to 80 million+ people, treating millions of people each year with malaria medicine, and a metric ass-ton of other things. All of this from tax dollars from the "America" the world thinks is full of hate.

Much of this money is spent in the very nations, especially in the Middle East, that have significant populations that chant "Death to America" every time a television camera is around, then when the news crews go away, return to eating food supplied by the U.S. government.

Here's a good place to start if you want to know more about the quiet, good work America does: https://www.usaid.gov/what-we-do

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#166

Post by kolikotime »

ethbro wrote: post #157
kolikotime wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

West Africa, the region with the most greatest number of Francophone states and influence is largely the poorest African region(some like to argue Central Africa, but people debate its composition and shape more readily than West Africa). My experiences in the region often reveal great resentment with the nature of French involvement within their political economy. Now you may disagree with that and think its all hun…

> And we definitely felt sorry for Ivory Coast when French special forces busted into their presidential palace to resolve a domestic electoral dispute. You're referring to French forces arresting Laurent Gbagbo when he refused to cede power after losing the 2010 election? Allowing his winning opponent to assume the presidency? Extraditing Gbagbo to stand trial at ICC in The Hague? Where there's a chance he might be…

Some will say that it was a good intervention, in my opinion it is the continued and sustained pattern of French intervention that has resulted in the continued fragile nature of these states. And oh please we all know it wasn't really about "democratization", it was about removing an opponent of French geopolitical aims.

Ivory Coast background - France enables a local despot, known as Felix Boigny, who does enable local economic growth but institutionalizes power to such an extent that the county falls into civil war and disrepair upon his death in the 1990s, leading to two civil wars in which France plays a major role.

Togo coup of 1963 in which France played a role - Togo remains a dictatorship for 53 years and now has a large and enraged protest movement. The regime has been responsible for the deaths of thousands of dissidents.

Cameroon's backing of Paul Biya - Despite his continued anti-democratic manners and blatant electoral rigging, France sticks by their man, leading to now a insurgent civil war in Anglophone Cameroon.

The Libyan intervention - What can be said that hasn't been said, a new failed state, arms flowing across the subregion which leads to trouble across the Sahel in Mali and Northern Nigeria.

And these are just a few examples.

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#167

Post by afpx »

sah2ed wrote: post #122
afpx wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked with the World Bank in the past, I think that’s a very uninformed and biased view. They have been very effective in reducing poverty and improving infrastructure in Africa. I recommend that you read facts about what they do before reading random opinions online (from brand new accounts, especially). Also, I know dang warns us about pointing out potential propaganda, but this seems like this post is a go…

> They have been very effective in reducing poverty and improving infrastructure in Africa. I'm sure Joe Stiglitz, a Nobel prize winner in Economics, would disagree. In fact, he clearly articulated why in his book: Globalization and Its Discontents . "[It] is a book published in 2002 by the 2001 Nobel laureate Joseph E. Stiglitz. The book draws on Stiglitz's personal experience as chairman of the Council of Economic…

That’s called the Appeal to Authority Fallacy.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#168

Post by AsyncAwait »

jnurmine wrote: post #153
kolikotime wrote: post #63

West African American here (Ghanaian - American). This article actually isn't true, while the Kenyan Chinese pact that led to the construction of the Nairobi - Mombasa Port does have clauses related to penalties around lack of payment, there has been no actual announcement or any signs of China declaring possession of the Mombasa Port. In fact, the big issue in Mombasa right now is actually revolving around a Kenyan…

Are you seriously claiming that the French (and/or EU) somehow orchestrated the Libyan civil war? Offtopic: You joined yesterday and have gained 160+ points already with only 7 comments. That is very impressive!

I think 'orchestrated' may be a bit strong, but there's no question that they helped along.

They're doing the same thing in Syria, so why the surprise?

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#169

Post by StreamBright »

FakeComments wrote: post #145
ejanus wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an African and I live in West Africa. I think China is doing great job for the continent and it is helping Africa upgrade her infrastructure. But we Africans should know that sustainable development and transfer of technology cannot come if we fail to build our own indigenous peoples and companies. Nobody is father Christmas, everybody is there to maximize his gains. So , we Africans should wake up and take our…

So, I’m American. And honestly, you have every reason to tell me to fuck off and more besides. And I’m not Father Christmas, if you make a deal with me, I expect something in exchange. But what can we do for people in Africa?

You can build roads and infrastructure, create businesses and invest into education or have a supporting economy that does the same. China does many of these including their chat platform (Wechat) that enables a bunch of local businesses to be able to do what they want. I don't think that you can do too much more that that.

One example:

https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/28/simbapay-launches-kenya-to...

Re: Chinese may take over Mombasa port: Ouko

#170

Post by kolikotime »

chrischen wrote: post #163
kolikotime wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invest in African growth businesses(stocks at the moment, African focused mutual markets). Purchase African products. Lobby your government/EU governments to continue AGOA(US)/open the door towards African food/crop imports (unlikely). And honestly, tourism, some great destinations on the continent, and a great way to actually spend in local economies. Africans don't need charity. The NGO industrial complex has faile…

Is it true to say the US donates more (like Tom’s shoes) than legitimate investments?

It would be hard to quantify, what we can say is that China focuses more on hard infrastructure, which African countries have a huge lack of capacity of, and which the West has't really focused on development wise since the 1970s.

America excels more traditionally on capacity("soft" work to do with say governance, healthcare, NGOs, and also committed through the IMF/World Bank).

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