Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year • Hacker News Board

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#161

Post by PedroBatista » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:01 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #72

2bitencryption wrote: post #47

> The New York-based company has been looking at cutting costs as it ramps up investment in its next generation 5G network, which is expected to fuel growth. "we're about to grow a ton, better cut 10k jobs to maximize those gains." that just sounds so... weird to me.

The company is laying off 10,400 employees. According to the article: The company said it had 152,300 employees at the end of the third-quarter ending Sept. 30. That's a significant chunk of their workforce! I suspect Verizon will quietly be hiring thousands of people from places where they can legally pay them less than these 10+ thousand.

That's pretty much the modus operandi of every telco around the World.

The working conditions in call-centers or guys doing installation & maintenance tend to be absolutely horrendous across the board.

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#162

Post by twunde » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:05 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #93

moftz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they would just tell you that you're lucky to still have a job. Even if they gave you a raise, you just increase your chances of being a layoff target since you cost the company more now. If you are saved from a massive layoff like that, you seriously need to find something new because you are next on the chopping block no matter what.

> Even if they gave you a raise, you just increase your chances of being a layoff target But if you applied for a layoff and didn't get it, isn't that exactly what you want? And in the meantime you get to make more. It's a win-win!

It actually isn't. Often the voluntary separation offers the most severance or is close to it. Everyone left now has a ton more work to do while being paid the same and knowing that you won't be getting a raise or bonus. Everyone is waiting for the next round of layoffs. You also need to be careful that you don't make a mistake that would allow the company to fire you without offering a severance (I know one person who grabbed something from a late-night cafeteria and forgot to pay for it and was promptly fired the next day).

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#163

Post by vermontdevil » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:06 PM UTC

padseeker wrote: post #63

nafizh wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how many times Republicans have to try these to understand it doesn't work.

They understand good god damn well they don't work. This is exactly the plan. Sell people on the idea it'll help them, then these companies take the money and run. What amazes me is some working people will continue to vote this way even though it keeps failing. I guarantee there will be more tax cuts sold in the very near future, and the same people will buy into it. Some people never learn.

And then they'll go after the entitlement programs saying it's not sustainable to fund them.

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#164

Post by roymurdock » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:09 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #80

moftz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they would just tell you that you're lucky to still have a job. Even if they gave you a raise, you just increase your chances of being a layoff target since you cost the company more now. If you are saved from a massive layoff like that, you seriously need to find something new because you are next on the chopping block no matter what.

I don't understand how a company can think like this with unemployment as low as it is. They don't have much room to be calling labor's bluffs.

Healthcare + low skilled, low wage jobs (EMS, manufacturing, parcel delivery, warehouse work) are taking a lot of slack out of the employment market

Check out where job gains in the US were in November: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Healthcare added +32k jobs, the majority of which were ambulance drivers/EMS jobs

Manufacturing added +27k jobs, mainly in chemicals and heavy metals

Transportation and warehousing added + 25k jobs, mainly in package delivery and warehouse work

Business services added +32k jobs

All other sectors remained largely unchanged

I don't think a 50YO radio engineer at Verizon is going to be happy retraining to be an EMS or package delivery courier. Labor, especially older and higher paid (non management) positions, is not in the best position right now despite the record low unemployment rate

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#165

Post by padseeker » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #122

padseeker wrote: post #30

I'm so glad we passed those corporate tax cuts that created all those jobs and helped provide for all those raises everyone got....

Politically, I agree with you, but your comment is akin to when republicans blast global warming when a snow storm blows in. Pointing to a single data point as a summary of something super complex is always silly.

That's a fair criticism. One wave of layoffs does not constitute evidence that the tax cuts are a failure.

Still the economy is going in an upward direction, and Verizon isn't shrinking. Why are they laying off 10K people?

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#166

Post by dd36 » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:12 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #160

dd36 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, Verizon doesn't have access to $4B? Verizon surely has significantly more net income than Tmobile. And therefore also has access to more leverage. $4B would not make that big of a difference.

Verizon makes about $4 B in quarterly net income, but they only have about $2 B cash on hand and have investors who expect a $2.4 B dividend each quarter. So yeah, this is a hard purchase for them, especially since they also have $209 B in liabilities already.

No way. You don't miss out on 5G because you couldn't come up with $4B and your smaller competitor could. If it were $40B, sure.

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#167

Post by toomuchtodo » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:16 PM UTC

jayess wrote: post #139

toomuchtodo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why aren't you asking this of all the comments in this parent? I don't need to ask everyone in the thread, polluting the thread. I'm asking why you have made several statements in this thread insinuating the corporate tax cut has benefited the economy, with no evidence. My comment includes citations. Bring data, not feelings or unsubstantiated opinions.

I was simply providing numbers as a counterbalance to those that were weirdly lamenting that the tax cuts are responsible for job cuts, similarly without evidence.

Tax cuts were sold to the American people as something that would bolster jobs. Clearly, that has not been the case (GM = 15k job cuts, Ford = upwards of 25k job cuts, Verizon = 10k job cuts).

It is not a weird lament; it is calling out the lies of trickle down economics.

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#168

Post by pkaye » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:19 PM UTC

teachrdan wrote: post #22

sct202 wrote: post #10

I read on the Layoff they had about 11.4k applicants, and 90% of them were accepted. Looks like the first wave is out starting Dec 28th. With such a large cut it would be weird to be rejected, I would feel an awkward mix of jealousy and loss to go back to work afterwards.

Wouldn't it be a compliment of sorts to be determined too valuable to be let go?

What I have realized is that in such companies your importance to a company is only as much as the next project. When project agendas changes, next time might be your turn. So take it as a warning to find a better place soon as possible.

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#169

Post by adventured » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

dd36 wrote: post #166

bduerst wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Verizon makes about $4 B in quarterly net income, but they only have about $2 B cash on hand and have investors who expect a $2.4 B dividend each quarter. So yeah, this is a hard purchase for them, especially since they also have $209 B in liabilities already.

No way. You don't miss out on 5G because you couldn't come up with $4B and your smaller competitor could. If it were $40B, sure.

That's definitely correct, $4 billion is meaningless. If it were $40b to corner 5G, Verizon and AT&T could come up with it and T-Mobile couldn't.

For significant business purposes, both Verizon and AT&T could borrow $40b easily. Whether for an acquisition or critical spectrum buy. They both have plenty of borrowing capacity despite being highly leveraged (it'll very likely end badly one day in the future).

Re: Verizon says to shed 10,400 jobs by mid next year

#170

Post by RHSeeger » Mon, Dec 10, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #51

makecheck wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they are. Many, many companies offer a “voluntary first” incentive to avoid the bad press and services they might otherwise have to provide to laid-off people. Jobs went away. Sugar-coating the exact method of ending the jobs doesn’t change that.

Your cynicism seems misplaced; up to a year's salary as severance sounds like a pretty sweet sugar-coating to me. They didn't "avoid bad press", they simply didn't do anything to merit bad press. What's wrong with someone voluntarily choosing to take money in exchange for a resignation? It's not as if there is something inherently wrong with "jobs going away" when your definition includes people voluntarily quitting…

To be fair, it's not entirely resignation. It's "take this X and resign, or be put on the list to be fired and get something less than X". It's still better than just being layed off, but it not as nice as a voluntary resignation.