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Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

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Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#161

Post by kamaal »

8ytecoder wrote: post #45

Google feels like a company that's run by a bunch of engineers/product managers instead of a product leader with a cohesive vision. Anyone with an iPhone would understand what iMessages is and what FaceTime is. What is what and what you can do with each. Now explain it to me Google - what's your vision? (Or is it "target end state" in engineering speak?) As customers we want (at most) one chat application and one vid…

>>Google feels like a company that's run by a bunch of engineers/product managers instead of a product leader with a cohesive vision.

Google is a company that follows a model called OKR. Here, in this model, the company is always supposed to be chasing moonshots.

There fore all incentives, pay, raise, promotions, stock grants etc etc are all attached to such moonshots.

There is zero incentive for anyone for to maintain anything.

The system is working perfectly as designed.

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#162

Post by barry-cotter »

pvg wrote: post #123
barry-cotter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still miss Google Chat. I spent at least a hundred hours using that, then they changed it to Google Talk and I used it maybe three more hours. Trash fire.

Wasn't chat just an extension of Google Talk into the gmail web client?

Gchat worked both in the browser and years after I started using it in browser as an app. Google Talk was a forced downgrade of a working app to an app that used way more data to not work for most practical purposes. I am ignorant of the technical details but Gchat worked and that was the first and last time I’ve spent more than ten minutes on a google chat platform.

They had a massive base of users in everyone who had a gmail account, many of whom used Gchat and they threw it away. It’s like if Apple managed to so badly screw up iMessage that it disappeared from use.

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#163

Post by pvg »

barry-cotter wrote: post #162
pvg wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't chat just an extension of Google Talk into the gmail web client?

Gchat worked both in the browser and years after I started using it in browser as an app. Google Talk was a forced downgrade of a working app to an app that used way more data to not work for most practical purposes. I am ignorant of the technical details but Gchat worked and that was the first and last time I’ve spent more than ten minutes on a google chat platform. They had a massive base of users in everyone who h…

Yeah I think you have the history somewhat backwards. Gtalk was the original app and then it got integrated into Gmail as well. The abandonment of Gtalk and related bits is definitely one of those weird and seemingly inexplicable user-hating moves.

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#164

Post by gregmac »

beginningguava wrote: post #106
8ytecoder wrote: post #45

Google feels like a company that's run by a bunch of engineers/product managers instead of a product leader with a cohesive vision. Anyone with an iPhone would understand what iMessages is and what FaceTime is. What is what and what you can do with each. Now explain it to me Google - what's your vision? (Or is it "target end state" in engineering speak?) As customers we want (at most) one chat application and one vid…

>Now explain it to me Google - what's your vision It's a bunch of very talented, bored engineers who realize that launching a product, even if it fails, is better for their career and resume than doing grunge work that might be better for google's bottom line Basically resume driven development and Google hasn't done anything to prevent it. They probably don't care, they'd rather have them wasting money at Google tha…

From what I gather, basically Googlers are only really rewarded (promoted) for delivering "new" things, and iterative improvements, bug fixes and even making different products cohesive are not recognized.

There's lots of good examples of this [1], but from one particuarly recent example [2]:

> I should have done the opposite: figure out what the promotion committee wants, and do that work exclusively.

> I adopted a new strategy. Before starting any task, I asked myself whether it would help my case for promotion. If the answer was no, I didn’t do it.

> My quality bar for code dropped from, “Will we be able to maintain this for the next 5 years?” to, “Can this last until I’m promoted?” I didn’t file or fix any bugs unless they risked my project’s launch. I wriggled out of all responsibilities for maintenance work.

When you look at their products through this lens, it starts to make sense, such as continually launching "new" communication apps that might as well be from different companies.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16231658

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16483241

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#165

Post by majewsky »

DenisM wrote: post #138
zorpner wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly correct (former Googler; still in touch with many). This is one of the reasons for the endless usability-destroying redesigns on their successful products -- people need listable accomplishments in order to advance, either internally or externally. Google has destroyed, or at least nullified, a generation of engineering talent with their unambitious, checkbox-resume based advancement scheme. We should…

Large companies rise, and then fall to clear up the space for the next aspiring large company. It's Google's natural destiny to fall, too. Interestingly, the lifetime of a company is directly tied to the attention span of its customers. As long people come to the store asking for Coca Cola the company will endure, so this is probably generational. Enterprise software sticks around, so does Oracle. Internet consumer t…

The search engine is still very profitable, though, so that would curb the fall. (Or did I miss some news there?)

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#166

Post by majewsky »

kamaal wrote: post #161
8ytecoder wrote: post #45

Google feels like a company that's run by a bunch of engineers/product managers instead of a product leader with a cohesive vision. Anyone with an iPhone would understand what iMessages is and what FaceTime is. What is what and what you can do with each. Now explain it to me Google - what's your vision? (Or is it "target end state" in engineering speak?) As customers we want (at most) one chat application and one vid…

>>Google feels like a company that's run by a bunch of engineers/product managers instead of a product leader with a cohesive vision. Google is a company that follows a model called OKR. Here, in this model, the company is always supposed to be chasing moonshots. There fore all incentives, pay, raise, promotions, stock grants etc etc are all attached to such moonshots. There is zero incentive for anyone for to mainta…

It's always a good idea to expand acronyms that you're using. OKR apparently stands for "Objectives and key results", according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKR.

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#167

Post by Markoff »

8ytecoder wrote: post #45

Google feels like a company that's run by a bunch of engineers/product managers instead of a product leader with a cohesive vision. Anyone with an iPhone would understand what iMessages is and what FaceTime is. What is what and what you can do with each. Now explain it to me Google - what's your vision? (Or is it "target end state" in engineering speak?) As customers we want (at most) one chat application and one vid…

Google maps get it right? so i can download just country package before visiting it? i can just use it as offline navigation avoiding steep roaming fees or even better lack of network coverage in wilderness? i am honestly surprised by anyone using Google maps, that app it's missing basic features other apps had for years

F-droid Maps user

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#168

Post by shaklee3 »

i_cant_speel wrote: post #92
shaklee3 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't really read that as much of a scandal. Just that they were increasing prices and people got upset.

I'm upset by this because I just got burned by it last week. I needed their geocoding API for a project at work. I didn't realize I was looking at their old pricing page at first, and came to the conclusion it would cost us about $65 a month. Once I realized my mistake, I did the math again and it came to over $700 a month, which couldn't be justified for the use case. So I've spent the last week implementing the fun…

yes, I agree that's extremely frustrating. It was a huge price increase, and probably needed to be justified or at least have a different tiered structure to make it less expensive.

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#169

Post by jxdxbx »

ydnaclementine wrote: post #126

I forgot which HN thread I read this, but an ex-googler said something like: "the most important thing to do for career growth at google is to launch your product, doesn't matter how shit/half assed/etc it is. You don't get credit for maintaining the old stuff." Reading that put a lot of Google's actions into perspective (how many chat clients do they really need?, youtube music, etc)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18379394

Re: Source: Google Allo will be officially shut down soon

#170

Post by WalterSear »

Markoff wrote: post #167
8ytecoder wrote: post #45

Google feels like a company that's run by a bunch of engineers/product managers instead of a product leader with a cohesive vision. Anyone with an iPhone would understand what iMessages is and what FaceTime is. What is what and what you can do with each. Now explain it to me Google - what's your vision? (Or is it "target end state" in engineering speak?) As customers we want (at most) one chat application and one vid…

Google maps get it right? so i can download just country package before visiting it? i can just use it as offline navigation avoiding steep roaming fees or even better lack of network coverage in wilderness? i am honestly surprised by anyone using Google maps, that app it's missing basic features other apps had for years F-droid Maps user

Google map's offline download feature works fine on my phone.
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