Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site • Hacker News Board

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#161

Post by cgriswald » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #104

ChuckMcM wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree, what I wonder about is how management sees this as a better alternative than serving their customers. I expect it is a "damned if you do damned if you don't" type situation. They are at a tremendous disadvantage as a 'web' experience because you're getting there through Google, Facebook, or Bing rather than landing directly on their page so they have already paid that platform to put you in front. T…

So at some point I presume the go full "Yellow Pages" and just charge venues a monthly fee to appear at all in their pages. That works if they are generating significant foot traffic into the venue but fails if they can't connect the app/website use with the visit. I think it's useful at this point to ask why various directories had value during their heyday. The "Yellow Pages" had value, simply because there wasn't…

> Unfortunately, too many people realized how valuable this was and the gaming of the system on all sides started, greatly reducing the usefulness of the Yelp directory.

I'm not sure if this is exactly it or if you're letting Yelp off the hook. Yelp was perfectly happy to try to profit from the gaming. That didn't just damage its usefulness. It damaged trust; and trust is a lot harder to get back.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#162

Post by sxp62000 » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:45 PM UTC

Yelp is full of wannabe food critics/influencer types who complain about the ambience or quality of service. I always get the impression that these people only go to places that are already popular. For things not related to food/drinks, Yelp is no better than Google.

Also, they focus too much on search/ratings, so finding a place is harder when you aren't quite sure what you're in the mood for. I hope Yelp focuses more on the discovery aspect, because right now that's happening on Instagram and blogs like Eater.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#163

Post by Scoundreller » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #153

barking wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They prompt you endlessly on Android as well with a huge "CONTINUE" button to install their app versus a tiny "or go to the mobile site" link to stay in the browser with just the last 2 words being the hyperlink. This annoying choice takes up fully 1/3 of the screen.

Yup, and even when you switch to old mode it frequently reverts when you use the back button. They are intentionally making the web mobile experience horrible because they think that you'll be more engaged if you use the app.

So now that reddit’s Death has begun, what’s our alternative?

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#164

Post by ghaff » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:46 PM UTC

ilikehurdles wrote: post #106

ghostly_s wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that I would take some random stranger's advice because they earned some 'Yelp Stars' or whatever by wasting a bunch of their time on the site trying to feel important is ridiculous. I stopped looking at these pretty quick after I realized what a time-sink it was that did not seem to result in me patronizing any better places than I was before. (And the fact that Yelp seems to go out of there way to prevent…

If a place has 700 reviews and a 4.5 star rating that's good signal that it's good, regardless of how many words are put into the 3 reviews you see on the front page. If a place has 5 reviews and a 3 star rating that doesn't mean anything to me. Maybe it's great maybe it sucks, but I'm not turned off by it. It's just basic stats. If you're trusting one good 500-word yelp-elite review on a listing with 2000 2-star rev…

Exactly. I'm under no illusion that Yelp is a particularly useful filter to pick out the ultimate dining experience. But I travel something over 100 days a year. If for at least some of those days when I'm in unfamiliar locations, Yelp can--with a little bit of skeptical evaluation on my part--help me pick restaurants that are mostly to my tastes and on the better side of average, it's done its job. I am somewhat critical/fussy about restaurants in general so I don't mind spending a few minutes to do some research.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#165

Post by Mikeb85 » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:48 PM UTC

They've tried to hold restaurants and other small businesses hostage for years and never expected that, given how despised they are, someone would displace them?

The way they run their business is comical as well. In my city Yelp is basically a non-factor. Businesses that have 500 Google or OpenTable reviews will often have a dozen Yelp reviews at most, yet Yelp will constantly phone you trying to get you to sign up for their services... Usually very aggressively and during peak business hours.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#166

Post by this2shallPass » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:48 PM UTC

allochthon wrote: post #86

I can't relate to the negativity I see here. I like Yelp quite a lot. There have been a number occasions where I've found an excellent local restaurant that I wouldn't have otherwise found. Admittedly, you have to know what you're doing. If you're in a food desert, like some parts of the US, you'll need to take those 4 and 4.5 star restaurant profiles with a grain of salt. What I would really like: the ability to sel…

I mostly like and use Yelp, and I get the negativity.

What your saying about knowing how to use Yelp is right on, but it leads to some dissatisfaction, because a 4 star restaurant should be a 4 star restaurant. More importantly, they manipulate ratings. They pressure businesses to pay them to fix ratings Yelp broke. They let businesses improve ratings when they shouldn't, analogous to Glassdoor and Amazon users getting ratings they don't like kicked off or hidden. There are plenty of fake and misleading reviews. And they have lots of dark patterns e.g. pushing you to their mobile app from the web, requiring you to create an account, etc. Some of these are observable by everyone, others there are many anecdotes.

They're not going away. They provide value to people, me included. But some negativity directed their way makes sense to me.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#167

Post by gscott » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

adwordsjedi wrote: post #33

Great news! I run a local service company and stopped advertising with Yelp several months ago. No transparency how clicks go to $12 when they used to be $5. That's not even a click to your site, just your Yelp profile still on their site! On top of it, my 5 star reviews keep getting filtered, even ones that have shown for months. Meanwhile two recent 1-star reviews we got with people from brand new accounts still sh…

I spoke to them for insurance clicks and it was around $25-30 a click. Might as well just buy Google PPC ads for the same amount and get more value.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#168

Post by Loughla » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:49 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #108

thx11389793 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my personal method when out and about is "ask a stranger," with using my hand computer as a backup. i delight in answering these questions as well, so i'm inclined to believe people generally don't mind.

I travel a lot and talk to a lot of people and I can tell you from my experience that a lot of people don't know the best restaurants in their town. Most people haven't eaten at all of them to make the comparison. The best way to find out is to have some way to ask a bunch of people then compare their collective results and see what everyone's experience adds up to. That quickly starts looking a lot like Yelp.

I travel a lot, and I never ask for the 'best' place to eat. What you ask is very, very important. I always ask what their favorite place to eat is. That is a different result.

What I've noticed is if you ask a random stranger what the 'best' is, you get the same generic, expensive fusion something made into a paste cuisine. If you ask their favorite, you find small, off-the-wall places with terrible selection, but amazing food.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#169

Post by TarpitCarnivore » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:50 PM UTC

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #103

TarpitCarnivore wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely loathe yelp reviews. Far too many people trying to act like professional reviewers spending 500 words on setting the scene of the restaurant only to end up on 2/5 stars because of something ridiculous like bad lighting. This is all within given context, but there's been so many reviews for smaller divey type places that get people slamming it over stuff only to end up with a single line of "food wasn't b…

Those are the good reviews, they give details about what to expect. I have no problem with good food, bad service places.

I said it's within context though. Going into a divey 6 seat restaurant and expecting top tier service/experience is a bit weird. I have no problem with them, its' people taking pot shots & ranking down b/c it doesn't stack up to their preferred experience.

If I'm walking around a city and duck into a tiny Thai space that has 4 seats I am not expecting that place to compete from an "experience" stand point to some newer fusion thai spot. I go in knowing full well the food (hopefully) is top notch and that's it.

Re: Yelp craters 30% as advertisers abandon the site

#170

Post by icebraining » Fri, Nov 09, 2018, 6:51 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #112

ilikehurdles wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seconding this. Yelp reviews have their problems but at least there's always content in the review and I can validate some of the reviewer's reputation if they're being suspiciously positive/negative in their review. Most google ratings I see have very few reviews behind them, and most of them are under a sentence long.

Someone on Google reviewed my local cemetery. One star rating, because it made them sad to drive past it. Why even allow reviews on a cemetery?!

Why not? Some cemeteries around here are beautiful, and worth visiting. Plus like any other public service, they can be badly run, and it might be worth warning others who are planning to be buried there about it.