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Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

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Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#161

Post by erwan »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #77
nostrademons wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the popular unrest facing both corporations & governments today is people learning that conflict gets results . The logic goes that "Well, Andy Rubin managed to exercise his threat to sue to get a $90M severance package, and he doesn't even work for the company anymore. We do work for the company, so we are going to exercise our power as employees to put pressure on the company to not do this again , so that…

Or, alternatively, sexual abuse is a current hot-button issue, and this is helping to create a perfect storm of people who feel either exploited by companies and their executives (because they are), or that they don't have a reasonable amount of influence in large companies (they don't), or that so many executives get to fail upward (they do), or that sexual abuse is still not handled as seriously as it should be (it…

>this is helping to create a perfect storm of people who feel either exploited by companies and their executives (because they are)

What do you mean by that? I know only a few Googlers, mostly new grads. They don't seem to be worked to the bone or mistreated (9-5, high comp, benefits etc.) and have excellent working conditions (ergonomic workflow, offices with natural light, mentoring, good internal tooling).

In fact, I don't know if I would enjoy it. Since I like intense environments... they have it good though.

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#162

Post by amrx431 »

stuntkite wrote: post #76

I wonder what it would take for google to lose it's star as being such a great career defining place to work? I think it's kind of happening. We need more people out of the motherships and doing new, innovative stuff and defining their own progressive policies in their companies to compete with the motherships. I get the scale of capital and everything, but the internet is still a changing place and could be so much…

I am only interested in Google becoming uncool so that Googles hiring practice of LeetCode is not replicated everywhere.

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#163

Post by leereeves »

notacoward wrote: post #158
leereeves wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't, they should be free to work or not as they choose. But they shouldn't be able to abridge anyone else's freedom and I doubt they're as irreplaceable as you think.

Doubt all you like. It doesn't matter. What matters is whether Google doubts it, and I think they know better. They know the costs of hiring and training and downtime for their business. Do you seriously suppose that they think they could just find a few thousand replacements on a moment's notice?

Now you're making a different argument. Yes, there are costs involved in replacing employees, and there are costs involved in allowing employees to walk out or refuse to work on certain projects. Naturally Google will weigh those costs.

But earlier you claimed they were "the only ones" capable, and that I wanted to abridge their freedom of association. I disagreed with both those statements.

Now that you've restricted your position to acknowledging a reasonable cost/benefit tradeoff for Google, I agree.

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#164

Post by kerng »

jeffdavis wrote: post #160
kerng wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The investigation at Google, considering both side came to that conclusion. Two other execs provided input also the NYT article last week mentioned. Page believed it and showed Rubin the door.

Came to what conclusion, specifically? Did they come to that conclusion based on a process established beforehand? Is this process documented publicly? Or maybe this was just a calculated risk assessment, thinking more about PR and avoiding internal drama than a search for truth?

Here is the article from the NYT. You can read it and come to your own conclusions: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/technology/google-sexual-...

The truth came out eventually, although unfortunately four years later looking at the dates. Google tried to hide it, that's why people are upset.

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#165

Post by HillaryBriss »

dragonwriter wrote: post #29
kerng wrote: post #18

Google could have given him the 90 million but at the same time still call out his behavior. But what happened was that Google only said how awesome everything is and hence in fact protected and worse, basically endorsed, his behavior. I find it good that Google employees stand up here. I'm already wondering what will Google do about that other guy who gives back rubs in interviews? He got similar support and is stil…

> Google could have given him the 90 million but at the same time still call out his behavior. Probably not; mutual non-disparagement clauses are extremely common in executive contracts. Breaking that would have been the same, in terms of kind of litigation risk, as not paying the $90 million.

speaking of $90 million, is there any reporting anywhere on the compensation (if any) the victim of the coerced sexual act has received? is this known?

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#166

Post by HillaryBriss »

roenxi wrote: post #122
geofft wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't like their chances either way, management will persist in making management decisions even if they need to fire people to do so I'm not sure this is true - Google's legendarily high salaries and retention incentives are high because management has high demand for good people and specifically for people who have been at the company for a while. They might fire people, yes, but they won't do so casually. They…

Anything is possible. But there is a world of difference between an employee getting a lot of compensation and an employee who won't work on something the company thinks is important. This could be an existential challenge to the company's owners being in control. The reason employees don't get % share of the profits is literally because they don't control what the company does. If employees seriously can control wha…

> If employees seriously can control what the company does ... they become something like shareholders

yes, but, in another sense, as a tech company, Google hires high-powered individuals precisely because they will control what the company does. i mean Google management knows it doesn't have all the answers itself and truly needs such high-powered employees to discover new markets and create technology to successfully exploit those markets and push the company in new directions.

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#167

Post by rhizome »

almost_usual wrote: post #126
smokeyj wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine a search engine developed by union labor? It’s actually funny if you think about it. Side note: Do you think police officers act with more accountability or less considering their unions status? As if anyone else can shoot innocent people and take paid leave.

Can you imagine a city built by Google engineers? It's kinda creepy when you think about it.

It would be a simple design, with strong walls, complicated HVAC, and no floors.

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#168

Post by rhizome »

tom_ wrote: post #144
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #10

And then, after the walk out, they will return to their desks and continue working for the company. If you want a walk out to matter, you leave... and don't come back for free food in the employee cafeteria right after.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit,_Voice,_and_Loyalty

Oh nice, I had forgotten about this. It came onto my radar when Occupy Wall Street was going on. Thanks for the reminder!

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#169

Post by propman »

matt4077 wrote: post #108
Ptyx wrote: post #89

Reminds me that Kierkegaard has written about Google: "A revolutionary age is an age of action; ours is the age of advertisement and publicity. In the present age a rebellion is, of all things, the most unthinkable. Such an expression of strength would seem ridiculous to the calculating intelligence of our times. On the other hand a political virtuoso might bring off a feat almost as remarkable. He might write a mani…

If this is aiming to invoke the tired "virtue signalling" cliché, it's rather vacuous. Kierkegaard's alternative was an armed rebellion. Are you seriously advocating for civil war, and dismissing all peaceful methods of achieving change? That gets to the heart of what's wrong with the concept as it is used by the 4chan crowd these days: The success of democracy is exactly the possibility to effect change without shou…

“The success of democracy is exactly the possibility to effect change without shouldering grave personal risks. Trying to reframe this accomplishment as ineffective, weak, or lazy runs the danger of provoking exactly the sort of dramatic, self-sacrificing gestures that have been in the news recently.“

Wow, that quote is breathtakingly beautiful...and it’s so relavent today. Many have this self righteous feverish belief that their side is good and the other evil. When we as a society begin taking for granted the benefits of democracy and start truly believing we can’t enact change, the number of nut jobs committing violence will absolutely increase. Tribalism today is insane, and our ability to enact change peaceful,h keeps the violence and the bad acting to an extreme minimum. It’s easy to get lost in the chaos.

Honestly, I’m completly blown away by that quote and I’m using it as a rebuttal when these topics come up.

Re: Google Engineers Organizing a Walk Out to Protest the Protection of Andy Rubin

#170

Post by aninhumer »

nostrademons wrote: post #22
rayvy wrote: post #3

Someone with more info please correct me: But from what I read it sounds as if Google had to pay him the $90MM+, else be sued by him right? Because if they didn't pay him, he'd sue, then they [Google] would have to prove that he [Rubin] acted maliciously (or whatever), which would've been hard (if not impossible) to do, given that the accuser said they were coerced (not forced). So it seems as if Google's hands were…

A lot of the popular unrest facing both corporations & governments today is people learning that conflict gets results . The logic goes that "Well, Andy Rubin managed to exercise his threat to sue to get a $90M severance package, and he doesn't even work for the company anymore. We do work for the company, so we are going to exercise our power as employees to put pressure on the company to not do this again , so that…

>The end result probably looks like us burning most of the modern world to the ground, literally, but that's where game theory is taking us.

Has it ever occurred to you that if people are willing to burn it to the ground, the "modern world" might not be quite as good for them as it is for you?

What we are seeing today are people who have long felt grievances talking to each other and discovering that they're not alone, and that the civil institutions which are supposed to address those grievances systematically do not do so.

And when people are given no other options to correct injustice, conflict is all that's left to them.

If you want to stop the world from burning, don't blame the people for fighting, blame the system for making it necessary.

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